When did the word guy come to be applied to both sexes in the US ? (In the UK it has only been applied to a man, and that uncommonly; it is derived from Guy Fawkes, a Catholic, who was caught attempting to blow up Parliament in 1605)

I'm not sure when it began, but it should be noted that the singular form is not typically used to refer to a woman. Many women would be insulted to be refered to as a guy. The plural form, however, is fairly common in referring to groups that include women, and occasionally for groups of just women.

Even stranger the term 'dude' I believe it started with being "all duded up" or over dressed. I think from the early cowboy movies then to the surfer idiom. I have heard it used for either sex at the local high school and Jr. College by some kids.

It seems to be the singlar of 'guys' in surfer culture and has spread via the movies to youth. One might say 'let's split guys' to a group (mixed or otherwise), but it would be 'let's split dude' to a single person and evidently of either sex now. I still recall being in a grocery store near a San Diego beach with my then toddling children (this particular one is in college now.) A drunk/stoned surfer 'dude' stumbled into one of them and his friend said sharply "Watch out for the little dude, man."

My very blonde little son needed a hair cut and was wearing a very fetching little tiny red Hawiaiin shirt.

[This message was edited by notinmyname on 02-01-04 at 06:02 PM.]

Hasn't it always been applied to both sexes? It's just one of the many ways to get around the glitch in English that has 'you' for second person singular and plural.

You guys (US and Canada), you lot (England), you all (American South), youse (Scotland, New York), you folks, you people, you-uns...

Dude (probably from German dialect = fool. Compare Low German dudenkop 'stupid head')
A 1. noun a fastidious, aesthetic person; a dandy ; a fop slang Late C19
2. A holiday-maker in the western US especially one who holidays on a ranch; a tenderfoot . Late C19
3. A fellow; a guy.Early C20

B verb; intransitive/reflexive Dress oneself (up) as or like a dude. Late C19
Dudess, dudine: A female dude.

[From The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary]

Stupidhead sure seems to go with the 'dude' concept!

"You guys" or "those guys" referring to a group mixed as to sex has been in use as long as I can remember, informally.

But it would seem odd to say 'that guy' if the person indicated is a woman.

I guess it's generic, like "man" including women if the reference is to the group, but not used if the group consists only of women.

quote:

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Originally posted by babthrower:
"You guys" or "those guys" referring to a group mixed as to sex has been in use as long as I can remember, informally.

But it would seem odd to say 'that guy' if the person indicated is a woman.

I guess it's generic, like "man" including women if the reference is to the group, but not used if the group consists only of women.

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Yes, "guys" has become a sort of shorthand for "guys and gals" So if you wereferring to only one, and the one in question were female, that guy would certainly be inappropriate. In fact, if a group of women is intended, some variant on girls is normally used -- at least here where I am.

Alan Moore