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Diamond
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2005 Enthusiast of the Year
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What form should be used in replying to a letter when the signatory has given no indication of her marital status or preferred form of address?

A writer may subscribe her signature with 'Mary Smith' ,without title. There's no 'Mrs', 'Miss' or Manuscript 'Ms'. I reply 'Dear Mary Smith' but is there a better formula? Should I estimate her as Mrs or Miss, as the French do in speech?

In speech, the French have the invariable practice of addressing a woman as 'Madame' or 'Mademoiselle' (to us, they are a formal people), a practice which is oftentimes mysterious.How do they decide? Surely they can't always look for a wedding ring ? Yesterday, I heard a waiter address a customer as Mademoiselle though she was no girl but of an age to be married to Monsieur, her companion at table Confused
 
Posts: 11797 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As always it depends. I would endeavour never to reply "Dear Mary Smith" for that is just not British English, though over the last few years it's become a standard "Ah - I don't want to offend anyone here" cop-out. If a lady signs herself "Mary Smith" then it's impossible to determine how she'd like to be addressed, but which of the two would I prefer, is the question I'd ask myself, had I signed "Mary Smith". The French though use "Madame" in such cases. To use "Mademoiselle" would be oh so insulting - almost like "Master", which was once used for adolescents in England three hundred years or so ago when I was a lad. If in doubt, don't put yourself in a diffiuclt position. God knows what the reaction was to the waiter in your post, Fred. My wife would have clobbered him.
 
Posts: 1152 | Location: Paris | Registered: 04-28-03Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin, Paris, France:
God knows what the reaction was to the waiter in your post, Fred. My wife would have clobbered him.


That's why I looked Smile She left smiling, so either she was a regular customer whom he knew to address as Mademoiselle (in whatever context and for whatever reason) or there was some in-joke or senior Antibois waiters have their own rules or they have the pedantry and precision of a notaire completing some official document Smile

I bank on Madame. Antibes' waiters do sometimes address our daughter as Mademoiselle when we are at table as a family, though she's 21, but that decision is easily made from the evidence before them.
 
Posts: 11797 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond Enthusiast

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I don't know about the regular usage in other countries, even English-speaking ones; but in the US, the lady could be properly addressed as "Ms." which could be "Miss" or "Mrs."

I also don't profess to have French propriety (or sometimes any propriety Razz), but if a waiter called me "young lady," I'd hug him! Smile
(And we wonder why the French think the Americans are crazy! Big Grin)
 
Posts: 6567 | Location: LA (Lower Alabama) USA | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond
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2009 Enthusiast of the Year
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quote:
In speech, the French have the invariable practice of addressing a woman as 'Madame' or 'Mademoiselle' (to us, they are a formal people), a practice which is oftentimes mysterious.How do they decide? Surely they can't always look for a wedding ring ?

"Madame" is the term to use in French.

read this.
 
Posts: 7498 | Location: u.s.a, south Florida | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond
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I can't speak to British convention, but the proper choice would be Ms. in the US.

On a side note, graduate students will often receive advertisements addressed to Dr. Lastname to avoid accidentally addressing someone with a PhD as Mr.
 
Posts: 5914 | Location: NC | Registered: 06-13-02Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond
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We don't like Ms in Britain much.The French have the right idea. Their Madame is evidently like Sir, as an address, a respectful greeting not necessarily indicative of marital status [see link, but the original French makes a lot more sense Big Grin ]

As to Dr, only a few graduates here are Dr, but, nonetheless, in the old university city of Cambridge everyone above a certain age and of the right appearance (basically scruffily suited) is addressed as Doctor by every sales assistant !
 
Posts: 11797 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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