Ben and Jerry's ice cream introduced an ice which they named 'black and tan'. What does 'black and tan' suggest or mean to an American? Not surprisingly there was, reportedly, something of an uproar among the Irish community at the tastelessness, as it were, of this name for a flavour They haven't introduced it to Ireland itself, it seems: the trouble was in the USA and we may expect them not to try it in Dublin

When I hear "black and tan", I think of a breed of dog, most closely related (I think) to Manchester Terriers, or a mix of stout and ale. Neither image seems to relate to ice cream.

For me, what immediately springs to mind is Duke Ellington's jazz composition "Black and Tan Fantasy", ca. 1927. I always took the phrase to mean various shades of skin tone among all African Americans, but I think it has a more specific sense of "mulatto" as well.

Black and tan --- first thing that comes to mind is a glass of brew with half of it Guinness and the other half Harp -- dark and light combo. Guess this is what Fred is referring to.

To me, a stout and an ale or lager - especially Guinness and Bass. Based on the packaging (featuring a drawing of what looks like the this sort of black and tan as well as a description of the ice cream featuring the word "stout"), that's what Ben and Jerry's intended it to suggest.

"The Black and Tans" were a British counter-insurgency force in Ireland from 1920-1922. They were so nicknamed because their uniform was hurriedly created out of a black police jacket and brown army trousers. They behaved appallingly. Their own commander, General Crozier, resigned after a year because they had been "used to murder, rob, loot and burn up the innocent because they could not catch the few guilty on the run". When one was killed by the IRA they burnt down three hundred buildings in Cork and afterwards patrolled mockingly wearing pieces of burnt cork pinned to their caps. They once opened fire on the crowd at a football match, killing twelve, hours after some supposed British agents had been killed in Dublin.

They'd been given no training for what they faced.They were veterans from the late War. The IRA used guerrilla tactics but the men had only seen trench warfare.They had no idea what to do in the face of terrorist or insurgent tactics so they used brute military force and intimidation. They soon adopted a policy of torture, random killing, arson and general reprisals .One divisional commander even ordered his men to shoot dead any civilian who did not immediately obey " Hands up!" .

And guess what? The harsh methods of the 'tans' did not even work and certainly did not defeat the IRA [Does any of their thinking and behaviour sound at all familiar? ]

So 'Black and Tan' doesn't immediately convey a happy image to many Irish or those of Irish descent

BTW Fifty years ago the dog breed 'the black and tan' was the Manchester terrier but nobody seems to call it that now. . However, and mysteriously, the English toy terrier has recently got the name 'black and tan' . Perhaps the breeders, like Ben and Jerry's, are not aware of the unhappy connection but the Manchester terrier ones were.

For myself, at first I couldn't get why a Ben and Jerry's cherry ice -cream was called 'Cherry Garcia' . Shows my certain ignorance of old rock musicians, does that

Learn something new everyday. To me it is normally a Guinness mixed with Bass or Guinness with Harp. I have ordered this in Ireland and I think it might be called a "Half and Half"... does that sound right Fred?

I think Guinness and Bass- never Harp.

quote:

Originally posted by aminator2002:
Learn something new everyday. To me it is normally a Guinness mixed with Bass or Guinness with Harp. I have ordered this in Ireland and I think it might be called a "Half and Half"... does that sound right Fred?

That is what I too have seen ordered in Irish Bars. Though several other 50/50 mixes of a gold/dark color could qualify for the tag? Need a barkeeper to clarify this

A 'half and half' nowadays is a stout and bitter . (Who in their right mind would mix ordinary lager with stout ? ). Stout is Guinness or Mackeson or other black beer. Bitter is the brown beer that is served on draught [draft] in England, Wales and Ireland (in Scotland it is called 'heavy' ). What Americans call beer originated in Europe as lager and is, as you appreciate, yellow. True lager is rather different, but that's another matter. (What the English have as draught lager isn't usually much like true lager either . Harp here was a brand of lager sold in cans and on draught and was once owned by Guinness )

I doubt whether anyone in Ireland would ask for such a mixture by requesting a 'black and tan'. (We may ask for a Bloody Mary but then she was a long time ago !) Time moves on. I would, on the other hand, not be surprised to find that loud vocal protests about this ice-cream were in America from 'Irish Americans' and that Irish people in Ireland would mostly shrug and smile at this unwitting reference.

In Scotland, a 'half and half' would be a half-pint of beer along with a measure of whisky. Is that a boilermaker in the US?

I remember a few people ordering 'black and tans' in a bar I worked in, in Edinburgh, a couple of decades ago. In that bar, anyway, a 'black and tan' was Sweetheart Stout and heavy. The drink always struck me as a sectarian statement - I'm sure it would get you into trouble in some bars, particularly on the West coast.

In my younger days, a 'black and tan' was half a guinness and half a pale ale mixed.

Ben and Jerry's ice cream consists of cream stout ice cream mixed with chocolate ice cream.
Sounds disgusting doesn't it? here