Recently, a 16 yr. old couple were going to have a baby in Michigan. They both agreed that the boy would hit the girl in the stomach with a baseball bat. This caused a miscarriage. They may be charged with murder. My question is, is this a legal abortion or murder. It is strictly a legal question, not a personal belief question.

I believe that a "legal" abortion is one performed by a licensed medical doctor under prescribed conditions, certainly not with a baseball bat blow to the stomach by a sixteen year old. Whether or not it would be murder or some lesser charge would have to depend on the complete facts of the case.

quote:

Originally posted by edgeview:
Recently, a 16 yr. old couple were going to have a baby in Michigan. They both agreed that the boy would hit the girl in the stomach with a baseball bat. This caused a miscarriage. They may be charged with murder. My question is, is this a legal abortion or murder. It is strictly a legal question, not a personal belief question.

This type of thing is the reason why I am opposed to any restrictions on abortions performed by qualified people under suitable conditions. Kids will do stupid things to solve their problems when not allowed to do intelligent things.

In any case, in my opinion, it is neither a legal abortion, nor a murder, but for a legal opinion, you should consult an attorney. The matter may (indeed does) vary from one location to another.

Alan Moore

AMoore, this was a news report, I am not involved. I think that the police will have a hard time prosecuting them.

edge

The legal question seems to be straightforward:

"The charge, intentional conduct against a pregnant individual resulting in miscarriage or stillbirth, is a felony punishable by up to 15 years imprisonment." crime.about.com

Probably most countries have laws that cover this situation - it's a "backstreet abortion". Apparently, about 70,000 women worldwide die every year from botched terminations, having no safe, legal recourse.

But she was a willing participant. There is no crime against her.

That is, again, a commonplace legal idea. Many "victimless" crimes exist and participants in them are routinely prosecuted - examples might include illegal drug sales, underage drinking, prostitution or gambling. (Whether or not these - and abortion - are actually "victimless" is a much more involved debate.)

Hey New.. When I was young, I made my girlfriend pregnant. My mother took us horse back riding which resulted in a miscarriage. Should we all be prosecuted? The next time it happened, we married for the next forty years.

Edge

New...
What about the girl that rams a coat hanger inside her?

Hi edgeview

I live in Michigan and I know the story you are talking about.

My opinion:

An unborn child, 'legally', is not a baby until it is actually born. It would have been different if the baby was actually born and they decided to hit it with a baseball bat. (that would be murder). As of January, they are charging him and not her.

See here There really is a law about this. The "Prenatal Protection Act" - states only the person assaulting a pregnant woman resulting in a miscarriage is criminally liable. The pregnant woman, no matter how complicit in the termination, is not. It will be interesting to see what becomes of this.

Latest on the case It seems like they can't even prove it was the bat that caused the miscarriage. He hit her over a 3 week period of time.

quote:

It seems like they can't even prove it was the bat that caused the miscarriage. He hit her over a 3 week period of time.

Talk about a "glutton for punishment"!

Horse-back riding is different. I'm not a lawyer, but even I can see a significant difference between taking someone for a horse-back ride and hitting her with a baseball bat.

"Therese Tobin, chief trial attorney for the Macomb Prosecutor's Office, said there is no state law that says a person can consent to battery. And she added, "a person is not free to get an abortion at certain stages without public intervention."

The judge questioned whether the girl, at 16, was in a position to offer her consent.

"Did she enter into a valid contract?" he asked. "... In essence, she's getting herself an abortion without availing herself of what the Legislature says she has to do." (From clarebear's link).

There has been discussion about what to do legally about pregnant women who take drugs, or smoke or drink to excess. One "backstreet abortion" method, apparently, was (is) a bottle of gin and a very hot bath (it doesn't work). There isn't a clear boundary between deliberate harm to the unborn child and carelessness. That is a controversial legal topic.

These teenagers agreeing to their abortion-by-baseball-bat approach is obviously wrong, dangerous and to be discouraged, whatever legal niceties the defence team come up with.

quote:

Originally posted by edgeview:
But she was a willing participant. There is no crime against her.

This is generally the case with "backstreet" abortions, but even so, she is a victim of a criminal act -- just like someone using an illegal drug. The fact that they've chosen to take the drug doesn't decriminalize the act of selling it to them.

I've known cases of girls poisoning themselves to terminate a pregnancy, sometimes suffering permament harm themselves. I've heard of cases, but never one within my circle of aquaintances, in which girls, unable, or unsuccessful at terminating a pregnancy, terminated their own lives instead. I suppose someone somewhere thinks this is a good thing.

Alan Moore

I don't believe it's abortion nor murder...it's a miscarriage.

I don't understand how the girl wouldn't be charged under the 'Prenatal Protection Act' along with the boy. She helped cause the miscarriage by offering her stomach.

I'm no lawyer (thank God!). With that caveat in mind...

If you are looking for the legality involved, it appears that an important piece of information is missing from the description you provided:

How far along was the pregnancy?

Roe vs. Wade determined that a fetus is viable between the 24th and 28th week of a pregnancy. Modern medicine (as opposed to the 1973 medical technology when Roe vs. Wade was made), however, has pushed fetal viability back to the 23rd week. Whether Michigan now recognizes the newer 23 week point, I do not know.

Roe vs. Wade found it constitutional for individual states to ban abortions if the fetus is viable.

This Site says that Michigan has, indeed, banned post-viable abortions.

So with that in mind, if she was under the 23/24 week mark in her pregnancy, then there is the possibility that no charges could be filed. Reality, however, will probably be different due to the nature of this whole sorry affair.

If, however, she is past that time period and especially if she is near that magic 38 week mark, where it is a fully developed human being capable of living outside of the womb, then Michigan law has (if the above site is correct) banned such abortions, consenting or otherwise.

However, due to the incredibly touchy issue of abortion, people on both sides of the issue will most likely try to push for their "side" to prevail legally.

Other legal factors include:

Michigan's Informed Consent for Abortion Law. This mandates that certain information be made available to women seeking an abortion at least 24 hours prior to the abortion. As silly as it sounds, the failure of the boy wielding the bat could be added onto any possible charges, just to lenghten his potential jail term.

Possible statutory rape charges if the girl was younger than Michigan's age of consent when she first got pregnant. I believe Michigan is 16. But if the boy got her pregnant when she was 15, he could easily get more charges filed against him.

Parental Notification Laws. I do not know what, if any, Michigan's are in this area. Silly sounding under these circumstances, but possible such a law could apply.

There is - unfortunately - no law against stupidity.

The obvious answer is stricter bat control laws. Only professional baseball players need baseball bats!

I think these kids need counseling... NOT murder charges. The legal system is just not the answer to some problems (and I am in no way saying this isn't a problem).