These guys should be judged for what they did ON the field; I guarantee there are COUNTLESS athletes in various Hall of Fames (i.e. O.J. Simpson) that have shadier pasts than BOTH of these guys combined... cool
07-04-02, 06:20 AM dogspit "The banishment for life of Pete Rose from baseball is the sad end of a sorry episode. One of the game's greatest players has engaged in a variety of acts which have stained the game, and he must now live with the consequences of those acts. By choosing not to come to a hearing before me, and by choosing not to proffer any testimony or evidence contrary to the evidence and information contained in the report of the Special Counsel to the Commissioner, Mr. Rose has accepted baseball's ultimate sanction, lifetime ineligibility. "-A. Bartlett Giamatti
I would rather see MLB permanently dissolve and Cooperstown bulldozed than see Pete Rose ever admitted. His arrogance throughout the entire hearing / investigation and his continued refusal to accept responsibility have made him a pariah. The ban is lifetime and no consideration should even be given to Rose as long as he lives. Even then if for no other reason that out of respect for the short but powerful legacy of Commissioner Giamatti, I personally will never favor his inclusion in the Hall of Fame. The time for some sort of reconciliation has passed.
Oh, as far as Shoeless Joe Jackson, I think it is time he became eligible. Then if voted in, he should be enshrined.
A. Bartlett Giamatti, Commissioner of Major League Baseball Apr. 1 - Sep. 1 1989 R.I.P.
07-04-02, 12:53 PM DorianGreyed From all indications, most notably from the head investigator of the incident, Rose bet on his own team. To my knowledge, he has never admitted to that. He signed papers agreeing to abide by whatever the Commissioner decided in his case. Crying foul after doing so is just another indication of Rose's apparent feeling that he is entitled to special considerations. I still remember an interview with him shortly after he was released from prison. He commented about how tough it was and that it was a 200 yard ( I really don't remember the exact distance, but 200 yards is close.) walk to the cafeteria, and, "...some days it was raining." Poor Pete ! Maybe he should have sued for being the victim of cruel and unusual punushment. Bob, Rose's betting on his team tied his off-field activities with his on-field activities. That was a decision he made, not others. In the final analysis, Rose knowingly violated the rules; he has no grounds for complaint. His records have not been stricken, his name has not been erased, he just wasn't invited to join a private club. Those who want him in a Hall of Fame can start their own, and enshrine him first; Major League Baseball doesn't want him in theirs.
07-04-02, 01:30 PM Yankees15 I can not say it any better than dogspit did!!
Pete Rose broke a rule that is the backbone of organized baseball. It is a rule posted in every clubhouse in every level of professional baseball, and he knew full well if he was caught what the consequences would be. I have no sympathy for him at all. If it is a lifetime ban, then let it be a lifetime ban. He pi**ed on baseball, and he deserves the punishment he got.
Joe Jackson was banned for life also. His life ended many years ago, and so should have his ban from baseball. As should Pete Rose's when he leaves this earth. But not a minute sooner. mad mad mad mad mad
07-04-02, 03:18 PM BobLaz My point is that there are a HELLUVA lot more people enshrined in the Hall of Fame who are FAR LESS human beings than Mr. Rose..and probably many who have done more to degrade the game than "Charlie Hustle"... roll eyes
07-04-02, 10:22 PM PotatoChips Pete Rose suffers from an addiction to gambling. Since other players in professional baseball refuse to be tested for their own addictions, some of which affect the outcomes of their games, Rose's ban should be lifted.
07-04-02, 11:55 PM niccincoogol Shoeless Joe - No, hate to say, but strongest evidence seems to point to his agreeing to be part of the '19 fix. His grade school education, nice guy persona, "misunderstanding of what the fix was all about", and lifelong plea to be reinstated don't overshadow the guy's ignorance, and willingness to screw baseball fans everywhere of a valid WS, and potentially make a lot of money off of it too.
Pete Rose - Yes he should be in. Many of the above previous statements also apply to him, but unlike Shoeless Joe, the potential danger he posed for the fans overall love and respect for the game was minimal. I CHOOSE to believe he probably did bet on baseball games, but not his own team. I see little wrong with that. There's no way in hell that a guy with arguably the biggest love and most sincere passion ever for the game of baseball would sabotage his own team's chances of winning a single game by betting against them. His career playing numbers are plenty, and pretty dang freakish. He oughta be in, and Selig should've been out 10 years ago before he even started.
07-05-02, 02:02 AM DorianGreyed I don't think anyone here suggested that he bet against his own team. He bet on baseball games, an act which was against the rules. According to the investigator in the case, he bet on his own team. That is not only against the rules, but also provides an edge for professional gamblers to profit from their knowledge of when Rose does not bet on his own team. Most rules (not all) are in place for a reason. Rose's actions were clearly against the rules, yet he refused to go before the commissioner and either defend them or apologize. Instead, it seems that he was betting on a light punishment or overwhelming public opinion to let him slide. He took his case to the public, and bet that it would make a difference. That's another bet that he lost. He should have noticed another one of the rules; the public doesn't get a vote in decisions like that. He continues to protest, in the face of obvious opposition. Pete seems to be a slow learner. Pete - a tip- Bet on not getting in in your lifetime; it's not a sure winner, but it's close. Selig, whatever his other faults are, is not to blame here. He didn't ban Rose; he's merely paying attention to what a previous Commissioner said: a Lifetime ban. Rose continues to have trouble reading the handwriting on the walls. In the Jackson case, what little I know seems to indicate that he was more involved than the movie indicated, as stated above. That being the case, his lifetime ban seems to be appropriate. He's been gone for a while, and maybe it's time to admit him; Selig should consider doing so, especially given that it would give him (Selig) a chance to re-affirm Rose's lifetime ban. You'll get in, Pete, just not in this lifetime.
07-05-02, 03:15 AM Strider0 Call me an idealist, call me a moralist, call me whatever you want. But sports greats, particularly those enshrined in their respective Hall of Fame ought to be exemplary models for their sport and for the youth that hope to follow in their footsteps.
Pete Rose isn't that. Not by a long shot! Keep him OUTTA THERE!!! For life and longer.
07-05-02, 07:16 PM Jelp01 I might put Joe Jackson in, because even though he may have gave his word to help fix the 1919 Series, he did lead both teams in batting, and from all accounts did give his best effort. And his stats speak for themselves. As for Pete Rose, yes, his on-the-field stats are definitely Hall of Fame, but, since he was banished from the game for clearly breaking rules regarding gambling, which came about as a result of the 1919 World Series scandal, then it makes no sense to include him. He knew the rules, broke them deliberately, and has continued to show no remorse whatsover. I don't lose any sleep worrying that he isn't in the Hall.
07-16-02, 10:06 AM Koz Dogspit, It cannot be said any better.
I completely agree! big grin
The last several years good old Pete has been hawking his autograph during Induction Weekend in Cooperstown. He signs about 100 yards from the front steps of the Hall Of Fame. (On the same side of the street no less!) eek
I have to admit that I plunked down my cash to get one. The only twist was I had him autograph a black baseball with a silver marker. wink
He laughed when I put it down in front of him. Being only interested in cash, he signed it. (Even put his hit total on it)
I have no respect for the man. (I only did it to see if he would sign it)
At least he has a sense of humor.
08-04-02, 07:33 AM samantha I think Pete Rose has suffered enough and should be allowed in the Hall of Fame. We all make mistakes and he gave so much of his life to baseball. I really get tired of hearing about all that has happend with him.
08-04-02, 11:59 PM DorianGreyed Sam, please tell me how Rose has suffered. Dwell on the part that his 'suffering' comes at the hands of others, not his own. Do, however, omit any part about what others may have or may not have done. Following the line of reasoning that 'others did it and got away with it' ends up with the conclusion that if anyone gets away with something, then all should get away with it.(I'll admit that doing so would solve prison overcrowding.) Rose holds all the records he earned; he didn't earn any Monoply freebies, nor did he earn an invitation to a private club, one with rather stiff entry requirements. As I stated above, Rose will get in the Hall of Fame...after he serves his lifetime ban.
By the way, you wouldn't be "hearing about all that has happened with him" if HE didn't keep complaining about it.
08-05-02, 07:32 AM samantha I don't believe he got away with anything. I will hold my opinion on the fact that he does deserve to be in the hall of fame for all of his good years of playing ball, not for gambling. I can seperate the two.
08-06-02, 09:11 AM Yankees15
quote:Originally posted by samantha: I don't believe he got away with anything. I will hold my opinion on the fact that he does deserve to be in the hall of fame for all of his good years of playing ball, not for gambling. I can seperate the two.
Pete Rose was a habitual gambler whose actions could have destroyed the game. No, that is not an over-reaction. I don't think you have the foggiest idea how quickly gambling could cause irreperable damage to the game. This is why it is banned at every level of the game. I don't know who you speak of getting away with things, but rest assured, it was not gambling. Pete Rose is scum!! mad mad mad
08-07-02, 08:07 AM Koz Good old Pete was in Cooperstown again for induction weekend this year.
He now seems to have purchased (or just leased his name) to the baseball collectible store he has been signing at the last several years.
“Pete Rose Baseball Collectibles”.
With a logo featuring Pete located in the center of a baseball. (Big sign on top of the building)
They even had people out on the street with a petition to get Pete in the hall. (I did not sign it)
It’s a nine iron (Maybe pitching wedge) to the Hall Of Fame. So close and yet so far. big grin
08-10-02, 09:59 AM dogspit This is by far my favorite thread in the sports section of the Pool. What I love is the passion, it does not matter which side of the debate you line up on, it is hard not to feel passionate when you discuss it. I just wanted to express my thanks to everyone who has added their two cents worth, because there are so many well expressed thoughts without anybody going off on anybody else. Whatever else Pete did back then, to this day he certainly makes the most lively topic of discussion in the game. Peace.-ds
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 3719 | Location: Long Island, New York USA | Registered: 06-03-02
AnswerPool.com 
