Hall of Fame pitcher and military veteran Bob Feller protested the appearance of Muhammad Ali at Major League Baseball's recent All-Star Game, referring to Ali's avoidance of the military draft during the Vietnam era as the reason for his disgust.
What is your take on this matter? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 07-16-04, 03:54 AM Jelp01 I never served in the military (being blind in one eye kind of puts the end to that), so I can't identify from where a veteran like Bob Feller is coming from. I suppose, though, I might feel the same way.
However, I also think that it's time to move on. What Muhammad Ali did was 37 years ago, and it's time to let go. Bill Clinton dodged the draft and he was certainly forgiven long enough to be President for two terms.
I say let it go, Bob.
07-16-04, 08:03 AM BobLaz Didn't like the selection of Ali--As Phil Mushnick wrote in the NY Post recently, there are SO many great former ballplayers deserving of that kind of honor--and to pick a man in Ali's condition--who also avoided the draft while our soldiers are dying in Iraq--was out of line. Ali had his 'glory moment' at the Olympics a few years back..MLB (as usual) laid another egg here.. Roll Eyes
07-16-04, 12:16 PM DorianGreyed From Sue's second link - "... the Supreme Court Justices decided (9-0) in favor of Muhammad Ali." Isn't that called a shut out in baseball?
While I, too, wondered about having a former boxer at the opening ceremonies at baseball's All Star game, Ali is more than just a former boxer, and apparently, judging by the reaction and even, in a few cases, awe, with which he was greeted by the All Stars themselves, those playing the game didn't find it too much out of place. However, if someone wants to raise the issue about the propriety of it all, feel free. Just be sure and list all the MLB athletes since Korea to serve in a combat zone, or even to serve. We may as well include NFL players, NBA players, etc. I assure you that listing them won't take up much more space.
What does "Ali's condition" have to do with his appearance at the game?
07-17-04, 11:41 AM MsSueM I'm glad I brought this question up; I learned more about conscientious objector laws through it.
While reading the Ali case's full text (from my link above), I thought it seemed discriminatory and illegal to only allow those with ties to organized religion to be excused from combat -- II In order to qualify for classification as a conscientious objector, a registrant must satisfy three basic tests. He must show that he is conscientiously opposed to war in any form. Gillette v. United States, 401 U.S. 437. He must show that this opposition is based upon religious training and belief, as the term has been construed in our decisions. United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163; Welsh v. United States, 398 U.S. 333. And he must show that this objection is sincere. Witmer v. United States, 348 U.S. 375. In applying these tests, the Selective Service System must be concerned with the registrant as an individual, not with its own interpretation of the dogma of the religious sect, if any, to which he may belong. United States v. Seeger, supra; Gillette v. United States, supra; Williams v. United States, 216 F. 2d 350, 352.
But by reading the two cases mentioned -- U.S. vs. Seeger and Welsh vs. U.S., it appears the Court has modified the objector requirements to include general spiritual or non-religious ethical beliefs as equal to traditional religious beliefs.
07-17-04, 05:11 PM CincyOnTheRoad What a surprise. Bob Feller is a bitter old ballplayer who feels the need to spit venom every now and then to remind us that he's still alive. I guess having to play for the Cleveland Indians will do that to you Wink.
I lost a lot of respect for Bob when he felt the need to impart his unsolicited "wisdom" regarding the Pete Rose saga.
07-17-04, 06:09 PM DorianGreyed Among Feller's criticisms of Ali was the he changed his name. Some other name changes - Joseph Barrow became Joe Louis, Rocco Barbarella became Rocky Graziano, Walker Smith became Sugar Ray Robinson, Rocco Marchegiano became Rocky Maricano, Arnold Cream became Jersey Joe Wolcott, Lew Acindor became Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Marion Morrison became John Wayne, Emmanuel Goldenberg became Edward G. Robinson, and Hiram Ulysses Grant became Ulysses Simpson Grant. Feller also had his time line wrong. Ali announced that he had become a Muslim shortly after he won the title in 1964. At that time, he was in no danger of being drafted. It was only after he became a vocal Muslim that he became re-classified 1A, without taking any further tests. But this is a Sports forum, and the title of this thread is Feller vs Ali. In light of that, I pick Ali in the first round. (I heard that Pete Rose has Ali a 35-1 favorite!)
07-19-04, 11:00 AM juanruiz Kinda makes you wonder what Ty Cobb would have said.
07-19-04, 11:22 AM DorianGreyed I suspect that, were Cobb alive, we would still have to wonder, unless he said it on live TV. I am sure that what he would say would not be printable.
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