I'm a knuckleball pitcher in a city slow-pitch softball league, and have a question about a particular ruling. Is there any support, legal or anecdotal, for the following:
Men on first and second, one out. Batter hits to third baseman who is too far off the bag to force the man on second out. However, he starts toward the man running from second as if to tag him out. The man from second stops running toward third, heads back to second, then reverses again and goes toward third. The third baseman tags the runner with his glove, not the ball, and so the runner avoids the getting out via the tag. However, the ump calls him out for the following reason:
Once a runner reverses direction (goes toward second) on force play, he is automatically out.
Is this true? I've looked at the Official Rules of Softball and of Baseball and couldn't find authority for the call.
(Of course, we won the game, and its just a city league, so it kind of shows a particular flaw in my character in that I've actually looked this stuff up.) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 09-11-04, 06:31 PM Sailracer In major league baseball, I don't believe changing direction would have an impact. It would be similar to the rules of a player in a rundown, in which he may change direction as many times as he wants.
That is my understanding, but I have not verified this.
09-13-04, 10:28 AM Koz Quote by Diarmait: “Once a runner reverses direction (goes toward second) on force play, he is automatically out.”
There is no such rule. Sounds like the umpire made that one up Roll Eyes. The runner is allowed to reverse direction as many times as he wishes as long as he stayed within the baselines. Two runners cannot occupy the same base though.
09-13-04, 11:25 AM coldfuse Though not the case here, in the odd event that a runner gets to her/his base in a force out situation and then retreats, s/he may be forced out at that base without being tagged.
09-13-04, 11:40 AM Diarmait Thanks for the replies. I read all the permutations of the force out rules but could not find anything about reversing direction.
We told the ump to just admit a blown call, not make up a phony rule.
09-13-04, 01:25 PM Koz Very few umpires will admit to blowing a call Razz. I don’t know what league you play in, but around here umpires in organized amateur baseball and softball are required to be part of an umpire association. (There are several) They are also required to carry the rulebook with them. I suggest that you purchase your own and bring it along to the games. (I did when I played Wink) When something like that happens immediately ask the umpire for the ruling. If he come up with something you are not sure of ask him to show it to you in his rulebook. If by chance he “forgot it” offer him your copy to use. (Works like a champ Big Grin)
09-18-04, 01:46 AM DorianGreyed Just a clarification to what Koz said -
Do NOT pull your rule book out and offer it. Offer to get yours so he can look it up. If you pull a rule book out in front of an ump w/o his asking for it, you may prove your point, and you also may get every further close call go the other way. Umps are human, too, and no one likes to be shown up.
09-18-04, 07:01 PM Sailracer Sorta like the moderators at "Trivia" Confused Big Grin
09-20-04, 08:38 AM Koz Thanks for the clarification DG. I did mean exactly what you said. I used to keep mine in my bat / glove bag and never pulled it out to use (during a game) myself. I offered it when I was told the umpire “forgot” his. (I never went over to the umpire with the book on my person)
Once you tick off an umpire you can count on that ump calling most close plays or pitch against you.
09-20-04, 08:50 AM Jelp01 Earl Weaver of the Orioles was known to take his rule book and rip it into little pieces in front of the umpires. That, too, isn't recommended practice. Big Grin
10-20-04, 04:27 PM Yankees15 Your ump probably misinterpreted the rule about abandoning the bases.
In softball, if a batter hits a ball and fails to run to first, he is automatically out, no throw is needed. I am unsure if this applies in your situation, but it may. Stopping in the baseline in this situation is actually a smart base running tactic, as it eliminates a chance for a tag out then a throw to first for a douple play. I actually coach my little leaguers to stop in the baseline of they are the lead runner in a force situation and the opposing fielder is trying to tag them out. Make the defense throw the ball as often as you can.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
