Hall of Famer Ralph Kiner among those who do not want to see Pete Rose enshrined in Cooperstown.
"People are more forgiving today," Kiner said. "To me, it doesn't make sense. I'm from the old school, and I believe you have to live by the rules. ... Pete Rose is the guy who didn't back up the integrity of the game."
This is the first time I have heard of a Hall of Famer come out and publicly say something against Pete Rose getting into the Hall of Fame. (I just thought this was interesting.)
Complete Newsday article +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 04-10-03, 02:06 PM Yankees15 I have made my feelings known here and elswhere, I do not think Pete Should be reinstated, whether or not he ever admits to betting on baseball. The damage is done, and he has to pay the piper. I agree with Mr. Kiner, we have become too forgiving as a society.
Every time I see Pete Rose on TV, I feel like I have been dealing with a used car salesman. I almost feel as though I need a shower to clean the slime off of me.
04-10-03, 10:47 PM niccincoogol HA!!! That's a pretty bad vibe.
I'm beginning to do an about-face on this issue. I used to be VERY MUCH pro-Pete. Anymore, I just really don't care. I don't know if it's Bud's unbelievable shuffling of the feet and bumbling indecisiveness to make a concrete statement about it, or Pete's overplaying of his card, whatever - it's becoming a boring topic for sports fans. Not to slam this thread by any means, I just mean the fervor of even the most die-hard Pete fans has to be fizzling out now.
04-10-03, 11:21 PM Kelleygirl Fizzling out here ----NOT! We of the Cincinnati area were really disappointed that Pete couldn't be part of Opening Day events at our new ballpark.
04-11-03, 01:57 AM SeattleRon who cares, so what if pete rose bet on the baseball games. Everybody makes money off these atheletes and nobody cares. Re-Instate this guy. we all gamble here and there, the guys only human. Let him in!
04-11-03, 01:17 PM Koz Quote by SeattleRon:
quote: “who cares, so what if pete rose bet on the baseball games. Everybody makes money off these atheletes and nobody cares. Re-Instate this guy. we all gamble here and there, the guys only human. Let him in!”
I care. (So do many other people) I am all for Pete Rose getting into the Hall of Fame. I hope he gains entry the minute his lifetime ban has been served.
Major League Rule 21(d) states that any player who bets on a baseball game that he is involved in shall be made permanently ineligible. The rule is posted in every major-league clubhouse.
Pete Rose got a break already. He is not permanently ineligible, only while he is alive.
It is about honor and integrity.
04-11-03, 10:15 PM Kelleygirl Many thought that Ty Cobb had committed murder. I'd put murder way ahead of gambling as far as a serious crime. Like it's been said before--It's the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Saints and THE HALL just isn't complete without Charlie Hustle. **********************************************
12-12-02, 11:01 PM Kelleygirl Letterman's Top 10 Ways for Pete Rose to improve his image !0. Remind people how much he use to hustle
9. Change name to SpongePete Rosepants"
8. Travel with a monkey---everyone loves monkeys
7. Make an appearance on "The Tonight Show"
6. Say betting-on-baseball was research for movie role
5. Write and star in the delightful comedy "My Fat Pete Rose Wedding"
4. Find and kill Osama Bin Laden
3. Always carry Tums-- periodically offer them to strangers
2. Teach underprivileged kids how to play the ponies
AND #1.-drum roll- Hold a press conference declaring he's not gay +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 12-14-02, 03:46 PM BobLaz Another top 10:
*Rid yourself of the alleged COCAINE involvement-- and concentrate on ROGAINE instead!
cool
12-14-02, 10:32 PM niccincoogol I want Pete in, but can't help adding to the Top 10 list:
* Constantly remind HOF voters that 4,256 refers to the number of hits he had in his career, and not his current weight
* To gain sympathy, remind HOF voters that he played for the Expos man, the EXPOS !!!!!
* Have Pete promise to cancel that bet he made last week with his offshore casino on his chances for the lifetime ban being lifted before he's SERIOUSLY considered reinstatement
01-05-04, 10:57 PM Kelleygirl True Confessions Well, I had to bring this up...Rose finally admitted that he beat on baseball and that he is sorry that he did--now should he be allowed to be considered to have a spot in the Hall? I think there's some good ideas in this article: ESPN
Jayson Stark, the author, says that he thinks he should be considered but as far as being back in baseball, Rose (who undoubtedly loves the sport) should somehow do a payback by promoting it, talking about it, getting people to love this sport again. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 01-05-04, 10:57 PM Kelleygirl True Confessions Well, I had to bring this up...Rose finally admitted that he beat on baseball and that he is sorry that he did--now should he be allowed to be considered to have a spot in the Hall? I think there's some good ideas in this article: ESPN
Jayson Stark, the author, says that he thinks he should be considered but as far as being back in baseball, Rose (who undoubtedly loves the sport) should somehow do a payback by promoting it, talking about it, getting people to love this sport again.
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01-06-04, 12:00 AM MsSueM It's all very cut-and-dried to me. No, Pete Rose should not be allowed into the Hall of Fame or allowed to work in baseball. Rose agreed to a lifetime ban...The Hall of Fame adopted a rule in February 1991 that excludes membership to those on the permanently banned list.
Whether Rose shows the "appropriate" amount of shame and sorrow for his actions (which he most certainly is not displaying, as evidenced in these statements where he basically casts himself as a victim) is really not the issue. The rule Rose violated needs to be enforced to maintain whatever credibility baseball still has. I resent his attempts to coerce MLB into reinstating him through fan pressure.
Here's an anti-Rose editorial I read this weekend and enjoyed.
What do you think, Kelleygirl?
post edited to correct page distortion from excessive link length.
[This message was edited by KingKrimson on 01-07-04 at 12:36 AM.]
01-06-04, 07:28 AM Koz I agree with MsSueM. Smile
Pete Rose has yet to say he was sorry for what he did. Roll Eyes
"Pete still doesn't get it," former baseball commissioner Fay Vincent said on ESPN Radio yesterday morning. "He doesn't think he's done anything wrong ... I just wish he'd say he was sorry."
On October 11th of last year I went to New Jersey to get a “special” baseball autographed by Pete Rose.
I bought jet-black leather dye from a local shoe repair shop and dyed a baseball black. I had Mr. Rose autograph it with a fine point silver Sharpie.
Once I handed him the ball he laughed out loud and said “I have not seen one of these in a while, it looks different than the vinyl coated black balls I have signed before. Where did you get it?” I told him I made it myself Big Grin. He chuckled as he signed it.
I brought it to Cooperstown Induction Weekend last year, but Pete Rose was not there for the first time in several years. Major League Baseball has asked him many times not to come to Cooperstown that particular weekend to sell his autograph, or to try to lobby support.
He never listened and went anyway except last year. He said it was out of respect to the commissioner’s request Roll Eyes. It must have been a coincidence that the national sports memorabilia show was in Atlantic City that weekend, so he had another venue to make his money Razz.
I still believe that Pete Rose should honor his arrangement with baseball and respect the lifetime ban.
The day they put him into the ground, they should put him into the Hall of Fame. Big Grin
01-06-04, 07:50 AM Sailracer A slight segue, but people have completely forgotten one of the greatest to ever play the game: Willy Mays.
Never made the kind of money players make today, and was banished from baseball because he took a job as a "greeter" (played golf, made appearances) for a Casino. Didn't gamble, just let his name be associated. Where is his public support?
01-06-04, 08:44 AM Koz I have never forgotten Willie Mays’s situation. His case was completely different than Pete Rose’s though. He never bet on baseball, and was just trying to earn some money greeting people and signing autographs at the casino.
“The ten-year contract he signed as a goodwill ambassador and part-time coach for the Mets took effect after his retirement as a player. Shortly after Mays's election to the Hall of Fame in 1979, Commissioner Bowie Kuhn issued a controversial order requiring Mays to choose between his employment by the Mets and his job as a greeter for a hotel casino. Mays chose employment by the casino, and he was barred from his baseball duties in October 1979. However, the edict was lifted in 1985 by new commissioner Peter Uberroth. Mays then retained his job as greeter while serving as a part-time hitting coach for the Giants.”
BaseballLibrary.com
01-06-04, 09:46 AM dogspit Well, Pete is shrewd enough to find a way to sell a few more copies of his book. The excerpts make it sound like he is still convinced that he is the victim in all of this. With MLBs concern about gambling I think that keeping Pete out of the hall is still a powerful message to all young players that might consider gambling.
01-06-04, 10:14 AM Jelp01 I think it sets a bad precedent to lift a supposed lifetime ban. There are all too many things that baseball does which make it a joke, especially with Darth Selig as commissioner.
If they want to put Pete in the Hall, fine. As Koz says, make it after he dies.
And while they're doing that, IF Pete ever did make it to the Hall, induct Shoeless Joe Jackson alongside him.
01-06-04, 12:17 PM bluezebra Pete Rose is, and always has been, an ego-maniac who believes he is bigger than the game. He has waited 14 years to finally admit he bet on baseball. Too little, too late.
Remember, even if he is reinstated, that isn't an automatic open door to the Hall of Fame. The Hall has its own rules, and they still may not admit him. And, as long as he is banned from baseball, he is ineligible.
And, I'll never forgive him for what he did to Ray Fosse in an All-Star Game. That was inexcusable.
Bob
01-06-04, 04:50 PM Yankees15 Pete Rose, as I have stated here ad nauseum, urinated down the back of baseball when he gambled on the game.
I do not have the time to state the many reasons his lifetime ban should not be lifted, but I will state one or two.
His backers use the tired rally cry "Well, he never bet against the Reds. Roll Eyes Well, so what? Let's look at it this way. Say Petey is up to his squinty little eyes in gambling debt to a certain bookie. This bookie has a lot of play on a particular night betting the Reds will win. Now, the bookie approaches Pete and kind of suggests it may be good for Pete's health if the Reds lose on that particular evening. Don't forget, it wasn't the Boy Scouts he was placing bets with. These are guys who wouldn't think twice about having Pete swim with the fishies in the Ohio River. Now can you see how gambling can affect the game? This is only one of hundreds of bad scenerios. I cannot think of any good ones. As Bluezebra stated, too little, too late. Pete Rose obtained everything in his life because of baseball, then he says "Thanks" by partaking in an activity that threatened the integrity of the game. (Let us not forget, there still was a good measure of integrity in the game when this all took place.) Pete Rose should stay on the outside, looking in. Mad
01-06-04, 08:24 PM Sailracer
quote:Originally posted by Koz: Commissioner Bowie Kuhn issued a controversial order requiring Mays to choose between his employment by the Mets and his job as a greeter for a hotel casino. Mays chose employment by the casino, and he was barred from his baseball duties in October 1979. However, the edict was lifted in 1985 by new commissioner Peter Uberroth. Mays then retained his job as greeter while serving as a part-time hitting coach for the Giants.”
Koz, thanks for that info; I was not aware that he was reinstated after Bowie, "The Village Idiot" as we called him, being a neighbor in the Village of Ridgewood New Jersey, banned him (Bowie, btw, left for Florida under a cloud of financial suspicion) Thanks
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[This message was edited by Karrow on 01-07-04 at 02:55 AM.]
01-06-04, 08:35 PM Kelleygirl Okay, maybe he shouldn't ever be able to be involved with baseball, but I still feel that he deserves a mention in the Hall of Fame. He was the "Hit King", "Charlie Hustle", broke so many stats before he was a gamblin' manager. So many of us felt a thrill watching him play the game --with enthusiasm like no one else. There are those honored in the Hall who have done many crimes---surely what Pete did doesn't outrank some those deeds and besides "it's not the Hall of Shame". I know I'm somewhat biased being from here and all; lots of his home town still wish him the best.
01-07-04, 12:54 AM K.K. I am not a big baseball fan so there is little emotion in this issue for me one way or the other, regarding Pete Rose. I do watch lots of news and when this Pete Rose gambling fiasco took place, I paid attention to it.
I hate revisionist history. Saying that Pete Rose 'finally admits to gambling' is the biggest freaking lie I have heard in about the last 14 years.
He lied initially about gambling but when some of those he gambled with uncovered his deception(within weeks or months at the most), he admitted gambling saying that lots of players do it, but claimed he never bet against the Reds or never threw a game. HE ADMITTED TO GAMBLING 14 years ago. At that time he was branded for life.
So, I think whatever people decide about his status in the Hall of Fame is less important than the revisionist history taking place. You and I have been lied to for a while about his 'finally admitting' something. And this is just baseball. I would question every media source that posted this errant information. And I would seriously question EVERYTHING else they report, as well.
As for Mr. Rose? I really do not give a rats patootie. I don't feel sorry for him. He has made plenty of scratch in spite of his screw up.
01-07-04, 01:01 AM DorianGreyed I think Rose is only coming 'partially' clean because he realizes that he only has a little time left to be voted in, something like a year. After that, he goes to the Veterans Committee. Were it not for that time limit, I doubt if Rose would be speaking at all. Of course, he may also realize that he isn't going to get in until his ban has run its course, and that his time in the spotlight is nearly over, and this is a last chance to sell a book. After this book, it will be back to hawking autographs.
Regarding the article - Kelley, I do not agree that "Jayson Stark,the author the author, says that he thinks he (Rose) should be considered" for the Hall of Fame. Both the title of the article, "Confession not enough"and this quote, "Our feeling is: He may have done enough and said enough to be allowed back onto the Hall of Fame ballot. But he needs to do more." indicate indecision at best.
My own opinion hasn't changed since this subject was first broached shortly after the birth of AnswerPool.com. In fact, it hasn't changed since Rose was banned for life. I am a strong believer in truth in sentencing.
01-07-04, 11:51 AM coldfuse I must admit that my position has changed on the Pete Rose issue. He should be in the Hall of Fame - sometime after his death.
01-07-04, 04:08 PM BobLaz Yes--you can keep Rose out of baseball and call him the jerk that he TRULY is--but to keep him out of the Hall is preposterous...As many writers around here have said, if we banned people from ANY Hall of Fame due to their past dealings/moral concerns (i.e. O.J. Simpson, Paul Hornung, Fergie Jenkins, etc.- the list goes ON AND ON) there'd be enough room for ONE Hall of Fame for ALL sports--and the plaques could fit in someone's BATHROOM... Roll Eyes
01-07-04, 06:34 PM K.K. I meant to ask, Koz, I don't guess that black baseball is for sale is it? Wink
01-07-04, 07:29 PM Yankees15
quote:Originally posted by BobLaz: Yes--you can keep Rose out of baseball and call him the jerk that he TRULY is--but to keep him out of the Hall is preposterous...As many writers around here have said, if we banned people from ANY Hall of Fame due to their past dealings/moral concerns (i.e. O.J. Simpson, Paul Hornung, Fergie Jenkins, etc.- the list goes ON AND ON) there'd be enough room for ONE Hall of Fame for ALL sports--and the plaques could fit in someone's BATHROOM... Roll Eyes
There is no rule in baseball against drug use (Jenkins) or spousal abuse (Simpson). Hornung served an NFL imposed suspension for gambling.
Rose violated the only rule in baseball which would have gotten him into the situation he is in.
I see your side of it Bob Laz, but the Hall adopted the rule that they would not consider anyone who is on baseball's permanently ineligible list. I would agree with a deal that would let him take his place in the Hall (he without a doubt earned it) but keep him as far away from baseball as he could possibly get.
01-07-04, 09:11 PM Kelleygirl I'd go for that, Yankee. I hope Selig allows him to be considered for the Hall, though--God, he was so much fun to watch playin' the game. Yankee, sorry to hear your news--will pray for both of them.
01-07-04, 11:26 PM DorianGreyed A few questions for Bob What was Simpson convicted of? What agreement did Rose sign with Baseball regarding his suspension? Did Hornung (and Alex Karras, who was suspended at the same time, I believe) bet on football, and if so, did they bet on their own team? What was football's rule about it?
Hugh, Rose finally admitted that he bet on baseball, something he did not admit to before. He signed an agreement with baseball agreeing to his ban. A few years later, he wanted out of his agreement. While active athlete can get away with that tactic, Rose is not an active athlete. He has no leverage.
""In 1999, when I made the All-Century team, they needed me," Rose said at the time. "They won't call on me until they need me. They're hypocrites." - espn.com No, Pete, baseball doesn't need you. You need it.
"During the times I gambled as a manager, I never took an unfair advantage," Rose wrote. "I never bet more or less based on injuries or inside information. I never allowed my wagers to influence my baseball decisions. So in my mind, I wasn't corrupt." - Detroit Free Press
"Dowd told the New York Post on Wednesday he thought it was "probably right" that Rose not only bet on Reds games but that he bet against the Reds during the mid-to-late-1980s when Rose managed Cincinnati. "John Dowd, a Washington D.C.-based lawyer, investigated Rose for commissioners Peter Ueberroth and Giamatti in 1989. He said his investigation was "close" to showing that Rose also bet against the Reds, but that time constraints prevented its inclusion in the report." "Dowd also told the Post that Rose did not bet on the Reds whenever two pitchers, including Mario Soto, started, which "sent a message through the gambling community that the Reds can't win" on those days."
01-08-04, 04:28 AM Lighteningrodd My guess is Pete Rose will eventually make it from the Hall of Shame to the Hall of Fame...but it won't be in our lifetime...
01-08-04, 07:01 AM Koz True Confessions Quote by Hugh:
quote: “I meant to ask, Koz, I don't guess that black baseball is for sale is it? Wink“
Nope, as a matter of fact the only item I have ever sold in my collection was a 1963 Topps Pete Rose rookie card Roll Eyes.
I bought a box of old baseball cards from my brother’s brother in law in the early 1980’s. I paid $300.00 for about 400 cards. (I could not really afford it at the time) I sold a Pete Rose rookie the following day for $350.00 and ran to the bank to deposit the money to make sure the check I wrote for the cards would not bounce. (I did not make it in time Roll Eyes) I made good on my mistake.
I made out pretty good though. There was another Pete Rose rookie card in the lot. (I kept the one in better condition Wink) There were also several other rookie cards in that box. Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Johnny Bench, Thurman Munson, Willie Stargell, Reggie Jackson to name a few. There were also many nice cards of other major stars included Smile.
I thought about making two black balls, and selling one of them. I did not want to push my luck though. My wife thought I was crazy enough going to Jersey to get this one Roll Eyes. I already have a regular baseball and a photograph signed by Pete Rose.
I do have an older vinyl coated black baseball signed by Mr. Rose in white paint pen. It is in poor shape, the vinyl is cracking a bit. I might be willing to let that one go. Wink
01-08-04, 09:15 AM Yankees15
quote:Originally posted by Kelleygirl: I'd go for that, Yankee. I hope Selig allows him to be considered for the Hall, though--God, he was so much fun to watch playin' the game. Yankee, sorry to hear your news--will pray for both of them.
Actually, Selig has no direct say on whether or not Pete can be considered for HOF election. He can reinstate him, and that would make him eligible by the Hall's rules. The HOF is not run by Major League Baseball.
I had the privilege of seeing Pete play a game at Riverfront in 1985. He was 2-3 with a double that night. Thankfully I was able to remember that much. Most of that night is a blur, thanks to a trip to Caddy's and Porky's/January's after the game.
01-08-04, 07:56 PM Kelleygirl Hey, how 'bout this idea? One of our local people today on the radio said "If Pete could get back into baseball, why not let him be a baseball announcer---t.v. or radio --- local or national." As Hugh says "Would you cotton to that?" Sounds like you had a good time here in Cincy, Yankee.
01-08-04, 09:28 PM Sailracer As a Met fan (who also likes the Yankees, much to the dismay of my friends) since 1962, I got to see Pete Rose play in person many times at Shea (including his famous "punch out" of Buddy Harrelson during the playoffs), and no one played the game harder or with more intensity than Rose.
He has the credentials for the Hall of Fame for his on field play and accomplishments; Does he deserve it? He thinks so, but sure has not met anyone even half way to support his cause.
Ironically, tonight at 6:00 pm EST, Pete Rose was here in town at Bookends, a local book store, for a book signing; The line was at least two blocks long in freezing weather! Go figure!
01-09-04, 06:56 AM Yankees15
quote:Originally posted by Kelleygirl: Sounds like you had a good time here in Cincy, Yankee.
Well, they tell me I did.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed, 12-3
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
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