In the 10th and 11th centuries, what was the largest and most powerful state in Europe?

Normandy? The Normans?

If it's within the definition of 'a state', the Holy Roman Empire.

Sorry, no to both answers.

Al-Andalus ? (What the Arabic people called the part of the Iberian peninsula they ruled at the time: parts of what is now Spain, Portugal, Andorra and Gibraltar, and a tiny bit of France)

No, not Al-Andalus.

How about the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman -Constantinople).
I think the rest of the europe was constantly under attack from the scandinavian part.

quote:

Originally posted by bik74:

I think the rest of the europe was constantly under attack from the scandinavian part.

Well,in a sense that's true of England by the 11th century: the Normans, of the 1066 conquest, were descendants of Norsemen .( The word Norman is a clue: they were men from the North when they turned up in what is now Normandy).The Vikings had conquered and settled much of England from the end of the eighth century.

I too had considered the Byzantine Empire, but opted for the Muslim rule on the Iberian peninsula instead because I think of the Byzantine as not a country so much as an empire, the Eastern Roman Empire, whereas Al Andalus was arguably a country. After all, the Byzantine competed with the (western) Roman Empire for the souls and bodies of Christians for centuries - and trade and territory as well!

I think we need some clarification of what 'country' means in this particular case.

p.s. You're right, Fred, the Normans were a force. They not only took northern France and England, but also Sicily, southern Italy, the principality of Antioch, and North Africa.

I am not looking for an Empire but for a State that lasted about two Centuries and disappeared.

The Byzantine Empire and Eastern Roman Empire are conventional names used to describe the Roman Empire during the Middle Ages ( also called the dark ages), centered on its capital of Constantinople. By the years of this question is asked ( 10th-11th Century) , the Byzantine Empire was mainly disintegrated.

quote:

Originally posted by Mozart:

I am not looking for an Empire but for a State that lasted about two Centuries and disappeared.

Must be the state of sobriety.

The Byzantine Empire didn't fall until the capture of Constantinople, right? That was in 1453.

The Dark Ages are also referred to as the Early Middle Ages: 400 CE (decline of Rome) to 1000 CE. The later Middle Ages lasted until the 16th century.

I thought it might be the West Frankish Kingdom that began with the death of Charlemagne; it was one of the three largest states, along with the East Frankish Kingdom and the Muslim part of the Iberian peminsula, which has already been rejected. But it can't be the West Frankish Kingdom because it became the Kingdom of France in 987 A.D.

And it can't be the Eastern Frankish Kingdom, on two grounds; it would not have been the most powerful and in 982 it became part of the Holy Roman Empire, which has already been rejected.

So that leaves the Middle Frankish Kingdom. But it split into three states in 869 C.E., before the timeframe specified in the question.

The rest of the European states are all smaller than France was in the year 1000 C.E., so would be eliminated on that basis.

So I have to admit this one beats me.

But though my research has not been good enough to produce a good answer, I want to thank you, Moze, for giving us a really interesting question!

(I did a paper on "The Papacy in the 10th Century" many years ago. This question brings me back!)

Alright, according to CIA world factbook.


"Ukraine was the center of the first eastern Slavic state, Kyivan Rus, which during the 10th and 11th centuries was the largest and most powerful state in Europe". So I was looking for "Kyivan Rus".

It was a toughie , thank you all for your replies.

Hmmm, can't find it on a map for 900 CE, or 1000 or 1100. Must have been like the proverbial elephant in the living room -- nobody talks about it. But it was an interesting question, thanks, Moz.

900-1000 Europe in the Middle Ages

EUROPE in year 1000


Europe c. 1100 AD

Only snag is, we Europeans don't think of Kiev and the Ukraine as being in Europe (and never have done) whatever geographers might say the 'continent' of Europe is.

We presently regard Ukraine as an economic neighbour of Europe.For purely economic reasons she wants to be a member of the European Union. Mind, if Israel can enter (and win) the European Song Contest, anything is possible!

"Mind, if Israel can enter (and win) the European Song Contest, anything is possible!"

Landlocked Georgia in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization? Israel is closer to Europe than Georgia is to the North Atlantic. (OK, Georgia does have shoreline on the easternmost part of the Black Sea, from which the Bosporus strait connects to the Sea of Marmara, then to the strait of the Dardanelles, which connects it to the Aegean Sea region of the Mediterranean, which goes through the Straight of Gibraltar (finally) to the North Atlantic.)

There's something wrong with my browser ever since I upgraded my google toolbar (which I did by mistake, it was piggybacked on what looked like a Firefox upgrade!)

So I can't open those maps, Dorian. Do they show the Ukraine?

My map for the year 900 showed the Principality of Kiev north of the Black (Euxine) Sea. From the year 1000 map, the Bulgarian Empire, the Principalities of Kiev and Tmutarakan, and the Kingdom of Khazaria. From the year 1100 map, the Duchy of the Danube, the Theme of Cherson, and it looks like tribal areas; the principality of Kiev is smaller and farther north than in the year 1000.

These maps are from Euratlas.com.

This is so interesting I haven't done a tap of outdoor work today. The Theme of Cherson???

DG,when Israel was looking around to share broadcasting facilities with other countries she opted to join 'Eurovision', the European Broadcasting Union.So she, automatically, was signed up to show 'the Eurovision Song Contest' a programme which is much mocked by the British. We employ an Irish commentator who spends all the time making fun of the dreadful songs and the cheesy presentation, to our great pleasure.As a bonus, we hope to finish last, an ambition which has been achieved twice, including this year.Years ago we won it, to our great,very British, delight .We, like the others, are contractually bound to broadcast it.We call the programme "The European Song Contest" but that is a misnomer.

I think it's OK to ignore the rules about sizes of images this one time.



Europe c. 1,000 CE (This one is a bit hard to see. Kievan Rus is in the darker yellow, upper right center.)


Europe c. 1100 CE