Reagan then announced his intention to nominate Douglas H. Ginsburg to the court. Before Ginsburg could be officially nominated, he withdrew himself from consideration under heavy pressure after revealing that he had smoked marijuana with his students while a professor at Harvard Law School. (Contemporary humor had Ginsburg's nomination "going up in smoke", with Bork's having "gone down in flames" earlier.) Reagan then nominated Anthony Kennedy, who was confirmed by a Senate vote of 97-0.
Posts: 2047 | Location: Martinsville, IL | Registered: 06-03-02
Can people who listen to a convicted drug abuser bring this issue up with a straight face? *************************************************** 01-22-07, 06:21 PM Lighteningrodd
quote: Originally posted by aminator2002: Seriously?
Can people who listen to a convicted drug abuser bring this issue up with a straight face?
01-22-07, 09:07 PM DorianGreyed The link above leads to American Renaissance, a magazine who states that
Race is an important aspect of individual and group identity. Of all the fault lines that divide society—language, religion, class, ideology—it is the most prominent and divisive. Race and racial conflict are at the heart of the most serious challenges the Western World faces in the 21st century.
Wikipedia says, in its article on the magazine, that
A main theme is to demonstrate the "demographic threat" that increasing non-white minorities pose to American society, and to other European-derived nations. It is asserted that America's major social problems are due to racial strife and to a weakening of the country's "white racial heritage" by increased immigration to the US of non-whites.
The magazine and foundation promotes academic research and arguments asserting that differences in educational outcomes and per capita income between racial populations can be attributed to differences in intelligence between races. Though such views have led to accusations of racism, American Renaissance and its supporters claim to advocate separation for Caucasians from non-whites rather than 'supremacy' over them, preferring the term "racial-realist" [1].
The organization holds bi-annual conferences, which attract Neo-Nazis, “white nationalists" and "white separatists," Ku Klux Klansmen, holocaust deniers, and eugenicists, as well as numerous protestors.[3]
01-22-07, 09:52 PM DorianGreyed LR's link leads to an article that has this as its head:
C O V E R S T O R Y
Tragedy or Farce? The Return of Marion Barry
Blacks vote an ex-con back into office as mayor of Washington.
by Samuel Taylor ________________ Samuel Taylor is, according to a Sunday, January 23, 2005 article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Jared Taylor, the publisher of American Renaissance. (I don't know why he doesn't use his real name, or why he choses to write under two names.)
The Post Gazette article goes on to say
Taylor heads the Virginia-based New Century Foundation. Its board of directors has included a leader of the Council of Conservative Citizens, successor to the White Citizens Councils of the 1960s. A former board member represented the American Friends of the British National Party, a neo-fascist and anti-Semitic far-right group in England. Another board member is an anti-immigration author who has also reviewed books for a Holocaust denial journal.
"Jared Taylor is the cultivated, cosmopolitan face of white supremacy," said Mark Potok, editor of Intelligence Report, the magazine of the Southern Poverty Law Center. "He is the guy who is providing the intellectual heft, in effect, to modern-day Klansmen."
Taylor insists leftists are simply using that language to demonize intellectuals who take on sensitive issues.
"I've never been a member of the Klan. I've never known a person who is a member of the Klan," Taylor told Honsberger.
It's hard to say if Taylor knows any Klansmen, but they certainly know him. When conservative author Dinesh D'Souza attended one of Taylor's American Renaissance conferences, he bumped into David Duke, former Klansman and segregationist, chatting with Taylor. Another Klan stalwart is Don Black, whose neo-Nazi Web site, Stormfront.org, is a clearinghouse for extremist literature. Black gained celebrity in 1981 when he was arrested as he boarded a boat for Dominica where he and nine other mercenaries planned to overthrow that predominantly black island's government and install a white colonial junta. Potok, whose group occasional infiltrates Taylor's gatherings, sent me a photo of Black sitting at Jared Taylor's kitchen table, a beer in hand. *************** I will agree with Taloy (Jared, Samuel, or whatever name he may currently be using), that Marion Barry, convicted of a misdemeanor charge of possessing cocaine, was elected to a city council seat in Washington, D.C. and twice more to the mayor's office. The city is about 35% white and 62% black. I couldn't find out voting percentages of all the candidates. I certainly wouldn't have voted for him, but several people that I wouldn't have voted for (or didn't) have somehow managed to get elected.
01-23-07, 09:45 AM newnickname I'm not very sure who we're talking about here. Both Bush (Jr.) and Clinton (Bill) probably used illegal drugs in their youth, although both (kind of) deny it.
'Fox News Reporter Kirian Chetry blurted out what she assumed was common knowledge among the media cognoscenti: that George W. Bush had used cocaine in his past and yet had politically survived the exposure of that (criminal) indiscretion. Her on-air colleagues scrambled to "correct" the record: no, no, no, the cocaine accusations against Bush have never been proven beyond a doubt--so let's quickly shift the conversation away from Bush's drug past and instead bring up, for one more go around, Bill Clinton's admitted marijuana use alongside the recent revelation about Barack Obama's possible cocaine use.
Let's blow some smoke in Bill's direction, he never inhaled, ha, ha, ha.
Whew, that was a close one! Fox News surely didn't want to open that door into Bush's creepy closet, and they tried to slam it shut. Maybe the stress of the Iraq War, compounded by the growing abundance of Afghani poppy plants, is triggering memory flashbacks. Whatever the reason, the "cocaine issue" is back in the news--it just won't go away.
What amazes me is that here we are, six years into Bush's presidency, and the press still refuses to treat the longstanding stories about Bush's cocaine use with the severity and scrutiny that such charges surely deserve, given the high level stakes involved. The issue is no longer simply how and why Bush has successfully dodged the topic for his entire political career. The story now should be why the press has treated him with kid gloves for so long...' www.huffingtonpost.com
Political candidates now are of a generation in which many people at least tried illegal drugs in their youth (unless they were goody-two-shoes like Tony Blair). A straightforward admission is surely more reassuring than the self-serving evasions of Clinton and Bush.
01-23-07, 11:16 AM Lighteningrodd NNN-While people of the past are subject to discussion, sine we do have a Presidential Election next year, that is of particular interest. And as I understand, one Presidential candidate has admitted to cocaine use in his younger years.
01-23-07, 12:53 PM aminator2002 I'm not sure if we're talking about Obama here or not, but it's not that he "admitted" drug use as if he were under scrutiny. He wrote about his drug use in his first book. I haven't read the book yet, but as I understand it he was talking about his teen years.
It seems to me that things discussed openly and honestly should not be brought up as if it was a big secret that was discovered. I don't think Obama is ashamed of himself anymore than any of us are ashamed of some misteps in our teen years much less our 20's and 30's as is the case with the current President.
Find another way to attack... this plan is a dead end.
01-23-07, 02:41 PM Lighteningrodd I tend to think Sen. Barak Obama has handled this in the right way. Coming out with it early rather than it surfacing from the past from one of his old school chums trying to make a buck from one of the tabloids.
I tend to think many look back at Bill Clinton. He made famous the catch phrase, "I didn't inhale!!!"
01-23-07, 07:17 PM Sarai Experimentation in youth doesn't worry me, particularly if the candidate is honest about it. I would be VERY worried to find out that a candidate is currently using drugs or has used them while in office. I would also worry a bit to find out that a candidate had a drug or alcohol problem (beyond simple experimentation). Bush, for example, is a recovering alcoholic, which bothers me more than simple experimentation with drugs when a candidate was young, since it is possible that he could fall of the wagon. However I probably can get over that as long as I am kept certain that he isn't using drugs or alcohol now and has been clean for some time. I am pretty sure about that; I don't like Bush for other reasons. Wink
01-23-07, 07:24 PM frankvan I think I would be more inclined to worry about someone who claimed to never have experimented with anything, illegal or otherwise, during his/her early years.
In reading the article, I wonder if Obama went through an identity crisis in his youth. Big Grin
01-24-07, 06:13 PM newnickname How could you possibly read that article and "wonder if Obama went through an identity crisis in his youth"? Doesn't the article make it quite clear that there was no "crisis", and the lies about him having attended a radical Islamic Fundamentalist school are just that - lies?
That's how smear campaigns work - slinging mud so that some of it, no matter how unfairly, sticks.
01-24-07, 08:23 PM Lighteningrodd Barack Obama's "identity crisis" I speak of is speculation on my part. Consider his Father was an atheist mistaken as a Muslim. We know he went to Catholic schools. And one source of my research says he is a member of the United Church of Christ.
In the section titled "Early Life and Career" there is a line that reads:
" The family moved to Jakarta where Obama attended Catholic and Muslim schools from ages 6 to 10.[7]"
I went to reference #7. Here's what it says: "^ Obama (1995), pp. 30-31. For details of Obama's early primary schooling see Obama (1995), p. 154, which begins: "In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school, two years at a Catholic school..." See also Obama (2006), p. 274, which begins: "Our family was not well off in those early years [...] Without the money to attend the international schools that most expatriate children attended, I went to local Indonesian schools..."
Now is he trying to deny his heritage??? Even his own past of which he had no control over...
01-24-07, 08:29 PM Sarai LighteningRodd- He attended a Muslim school as a Christian. The Christians in the Muslim school were given instructions as Christians and were taught that Jesus is the son of God. This is not as strange as it might sound; Muslims are usually quite tolerant of Christians and Jews in cultures where Muslims are the majority and the more powerful group. Also, the Muslim school was not a madrassah by any stretch of the imagination.
Whether or not Obama went through religious questioning is irrelevant to me.
Wait, no, that's not true. I respect him more for it, if that's the case.
A person who remains the same religion he was raised is far less likely to have given the religious teachings deep thought than someone who has strayed and found his own path. And if he went and found his own religious path (exploring Catholicism and Islam along the way, and eventually settling on a Protestant form of Christianity), I would hardly call it an "identity crisis." I do not call someone who learns more about something and changes his mind as he learns a victim of an "identity crisis." I call it "Being an intelligent person who gives important issues (like religion) the kind of consideration they deserve."
01-24-07, 09:12 PM newnickname
quote: Consider his Father was an atheist mistaken as a Muslim
Says who? And mistaken by whom?
quote: Now is he trying to deny his heritage???
Where? How? What do you think he's denying? He has given consistent and straightforward accounts of his upbringing, as far as I can see.
You seem to be trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
If you don't think much of Obama as a presidential candidate, then for goodness sake just say so.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 3031 | Location: USA | Registered: 06-04-02
How could you possibly read that article and "wonder if Obama went through an identity crisis in his youth"? Doesn't the article make it quite clear that there was no "crisis", and the lies about him having attended a radical Islamic Fundamentalist school are just that - lies?
That's how smear campaigns work - slinging mud so that some of it, no matter how unfairly, sticks.
Barack Obama's "identity crisis" I speak of is speculation on my part. Consider his Father was an atheist mistaken as a Muslim. We know he went to Catholic schools. And one source of my research says he is a member of the United Church of Christ.
In the section titled "Early Life and Career" there is a line that reads:
" The family moved to Jakarta where Obama attended Catholic and Muslim schools from ages 6 to 10.[7]"
I went to reference #7. Here's what it says: "^ Obama (1995), pp. 30-31. For details of Obama's early primary schooling see Obama (1995), p. 154, which begins: "In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school, two years at a Catholic school..." See also Obama (2006), p. 274, which begins: "Our family was not well off in those early years [...] Without the money to attend the international schools that most expatriate children attended, I went to local Indonesian schools..."
Now is he trying to deny his heritage??? Even his own past of which he had no control over...
Posts: 2047 | Location: Martinsville, IL | Registered: 06-03-02
LighteningRodd- He attended a Muslim school as a Christian. The Christians in the Muslim school were given instructions as Christians and were taught that Jesus is the son of God. This is not as strange as it might sound; Muslims are usually quite tolerant of Christians and Jews in cultures where Muslims are the majority and the more powerful group. Also, the Muslim school was not a madrassah by any stretch of the imagination.
Whether or not Obama went through religious questioning is irrelevant to me.
Wait, no, that's not true. I respect him more for it, if that's the case.
A person who remains the same religion he was raised is far less likely to have given the religious teachings deep thought than someone who has strayed and found his own path. And if he went and found his own religious path (exploring Catholicism and Islam along the way, and eventually settling on a Protestant form of Christianity), I would hardly call it an "identity crisis." I do not call someone who learns more about something and changes his mind as he learns a victim of an "identity crisis." I call it "Being an intelligent person who gives important issues (like religion) the kind of consideration they deserve."
Posts: 2241 | Location: In between | Registered: 06-03-02
LR is merely trying to legitimize discussion about Obama's two years in a Muslim school or his admitted drug use in the same way that Creationists try to legitimize Creationism by saying that it is an alternative theory to evolution. He succeeded in getting people to talk about it, if only to defend the truth. It's an old tactic, but one that still works. (It was used by Rove in the instances I mentioned involving McCain and Richards.)
Posts: 16177 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
Apparently, Obama also smokes. "Would you vote for a smoker as President?" - Fox News .
Somehow, I feel these are only sighting shots. The smear campaign would surely become a lot more insidious and dirtier, if Obama were nominated as the Democrat candidate.
DG-If you are comparing me to Karl Rove, I will take that as a complement And for the record, yes I do believe in Creation. But I will save that discussion for another thread, not that it's been discussed a million times already.
Sarai-When I read about Obama's 2 years in a Muslim school, there was question in my mind if this may or may not have been a madrassah. I thank you for clarifying that piece of information for us.
NNN-On the point, that Barack Obama's Father was a Muslim. This is a point that has been mistaken for quite a while. I do recall in the past reading articles in reference to his Father being Muslim. No big deal. It seems to have been a common mistake that is just now being corrected.
QUOTE: "You seem to be trying to make a mountain out of a molehill."
While I may have the ability to make mountains, I certainly can't move them
Barack Obama, while he certainly has the right to clarify his past on his up-bringing, it would appear he has taken an unusual amount of offense, at the point of making it an issue with FOX News. I would have to wonder if he actually reguards this part of his life, the fact he went to a Muslim school during 2 years of his childhood, as a political liability. And as I have already pointed out, this part of his life, he had no control over.
Now as for his smoking, the last time I checked, tobacco is still legal. He's a grown man, if he wants to smoke, that's his decision. And he certainly wouldn't be the first smoker in the White House. I don't see where that should be much of a campaign issue. Well, maybe to some it might but I could certainly think of other issues more pressing.
Posts: 2047 | Location: Martinsville, IL | Registered: 06-03-02
...it would appear he has taken an unusual amount of offense...
No it wouldn't. At one point in his childhood Obama went to an ordinary public school in Indonesia, and Insight magazine tried to imply he'd been trained at a terrorist's brain-washing centre. Obama corrected the mistake, and CNN did a story on the smear. There was no unusual amount of anything, including dirty tricks.
I don't know what your point is about his father(s). How does the religion of either of them matter to Obama's political ambitions? It does seem that mentioning Obama's fathers could be some right-winger's method of saying "Oh, dearie me, did you notice he's black?"
If you want to discuss Obama, why not discuss what he's said or done or proposed, instead of what Rush Limbaugh is saying about him?
And the response I've seen from Obama certainly didn't seem to be unusual.
He repeatedly says something like "When your name is Barack Obama and your career is in politics, you have to answer questions like these. I've dealt with it all my life."
Posts: 3031 | Location: USA | Registered: 06-04-02
NNN-I haven't listened to Rush lately. I'm not very updated to what he does have to say about Barack Obama. And if you are interested in discussing his political positions, why not start a thread...the boards are open
As for his race, considering his Mother was white, couldn't he call himself bi-racial, if he wanted??? He can be whatever he wants to be.
OK now what about Sen. Obama's religion??? Why is this so important??? There are many voters who are interested. There was a time in the history of this country, Catholics had a hard time getting elected President. JFK broke that mold. But Sen. Obama is smart enough to know that some voters may have misgivings about his Muslim schooling in his childhood. And he wanted to set the record straight, which is certainly the right thing to do.
Now let us ask this. What is the real source of this so-called smear??? While it was discussed on FOX News, just what or who is the true source??? Who is Obama a political threat to??? And how much more smear on Obama can we expect???
Posts: 2047 | Location: Martinsville, IL | Registered: 06-03-02
As the various links above all point out, Clinton is not the source of the smear.
quote:
...some voters may have misgivings about his Muslim schooling in his childhood...
It's never a straightforward and honest "I", is it? It's always "some others". "Some voters" might consider his ethnicity a problem - oh, no, not me, but let's mention it as often as possible...
Anyway, haven't we just established pretty clearly that Obama did not have a "Muslim schooling"?
NNN-Did I say the source of the smear was Hilliary??? We really & truly don't know who is behind it but FOX News was the vehicle for making it public.
We have established he attended a Muslim school for 2 years. As Sarai pointed out in her post, he did not attend a madrassah.
And from your last post, NNN, obviously I need to clarify my own personal position on Sen. Barack Obama.
To start out, his race & heritage is not a factor with me. His religion, I don't have a problem with. Although he used illegal drugs in his younger years, he out-grew that. As time goes on we will find more & more elected officials who went through that phase in their life.
Where I would not come into agreement would be some of his political stands. His stands on gun control, abortion, health care, immigration, and the fact he voted against President Bush's Supreme Court appointee's, both who were excellent picks. And obviously I do not agree with him on how to deal with the war in Iraq.
As a general rule, I do not vote for Democrats. But in 2008, it is quite possible I could be voting for Barack Obama in an indirect way. What I am saying is if the Republican Party does not nominate a decent Presidential candidate, I may very well vote 3rd Party.
Do I dislike Obama personally??? No, not at all. Actually I have to admire him for what he has done with his political career. He is a very talented speaker and it is quite possible he could be our next President.
Posts: 2047 | Location: Martinsville, IL | Registered: 06-03-02
No, you didn't, but that's how this kind of thing works - like your first post where you say "one candidate" instead of "Obama". It's all "nudge, nudge, wink, wink - I never actually said that straight out" even where it needn't be. As the wikipedia article on swiftboating says - 'this form of attack is controversial, easily repeatable, and difficult to verify or disprove'. If you weren't thinking of Clinton, who were you thinking of?
Actually, it seems that Sun Myung Moon is behind the smear (he's the friend of certain well-connected family, the idiot son of which is currently in power, nudge, nudge, wink, wink... ).
The rest of your last post is much more like the kind of grown-up and honest political discourse we should surely be aiming for.
We have established he attended a Muslim school for 2 years.
My understanding is that it was a public school in a predominately Muslim nation. They showed the school on Good Morning America this morning. The Muslim students say their prayers as is the case in Muslim societies, but characterizing it as a Muslim school doesn't seem right. It's a public elementary school.
Posts: 3031 | Location: USA | Registered: 06-04-02
AnswerPool.com 
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