Multiple Personalities: Is this a real deal?

Is it possible that two "people" live in the same body, one being aware of both while the other is not?

The one that isn't aware, how would s/he explain the "missing time" when the other is in control of the body?

Could this condition go undiagnosed for the whole length of a person's life in the western world?

Is it possible that the "main personality" finally gives up and the "secondary personality" takes over?

I may have more questions, depending on the answers.

David

It does really happen, but it is incredibly rare. Rare enough that when they actually find someone with it, they write books about them ("Sybil")

What causes MPS is cognitive dissociation. Something happens to the person that they cannot mentally "handle" or cope with, so their mind shuts off. When the bad thing happens repeatedly, the brain eventually creates a second "personality" that will be there to take the bad stuff, and thereby save the original personality from it.

Once the brain has dissociated and created a second personality, it is much easier for it to continue happening, which is why some people have 10 or 20 personalities.

In the case of Sybil, her mother was sexually, emotionally, and physically abusive. Sybil's mind created other personalities who could handle her mother's abusive, so Sybil would not know it was happening. In her case, she was aware of blanking out for, in one case, over a year, but did not question it because she was already convinced by her mother that she was a bad, sick child. In other words, her other mental problems prevented her from seeing the discontinuity.

I doubt that the condition could go through someone's whole life undiagnosed, unless the person was basically a hermit. People notice inconsistencies in manner, speech, and remembering events. From what I have read on the subject, it is typically diagnosed after friends/family notice the personalities coming out and send the person for help.

I can't really answer your last question, because personality is a contiuum, not an "on/off", in a normal person. You have the same basic personality as when you were a child, but with changes based on the life you've lived. I'd say it would be much more likely that the personalities would integrate, and create a new personality that was an amalgamation of the other personalities and a new person from any of them.

Great answer MTT and indeed interesting. I don't think no one could ever go a lifetime without it being detected, unless there were only a few seconds of the secondary personality. I seen a case on a soap opera once, and it was quite a trip. Couldn't imagine this in real life.

It is a facinating illness, which is why I've read so much about it (plus I've got a rather morbid curiosity )

From what I gather, the personalities aren't "whole". Like, normal people have many aspects to their personlities, even some that contradict others. For example, you might know someone who refuses to slap mosquitos but eats meat. The secondary personalities in MPS aren't whole. They are single facet personalities formed to deal with a specific thing, usually an emotion. For example, there might be a personality that deals with anger. So that personality is only capable of feeling angry. The benefit to the primary personality is that they never feel angry, which could protect them from a threat (such as a child who is beaten if they express anger). The problem is though that the person dissociates and can't handle anger in constructive ways.

Another interesting thing is that it's been recorded that personalities tend to stay at the age they were formed. For example, Sybil was around 30 I beleive when she was treated for her illness, and she had personalities that were small children, because they were formed when she was a small child.

From what I've read, they think that there has to be an existing mental problem for dissociation to occur. Many people are horribly abused and do not become MPS. They don't know for sure what causes some people to dissociate, while others don't.

I almost forgot to mention, there is a much more common and possibly related mental illness called Borderline Personality Disorder. This illness was immortalized in the book and movie "Girl, Interrupted" by Suzanna Kaysen.

With BPD, the person just doesn't act "normally". They may be impulsive, irrational, depressed...just not quite "normal", though many, if not most, people with BPD function just fine. They're just tempermental and sometimes irrational.

Many psychologists see a connection between BPD and MPD in that it is possible that the same situations that may cause some people to dissociate into different personalities can cause other people to fail to develop a "normal" personality. Many people with BPD were emotionally, sexually, or otherwise abused, which leads many psychologists to believe the illness stems from having to adjust to a bad environment, and then having to use that adjustment to relate to the "normal" world. Interesting stuff.

Truly fascinating.

I wonder though about going undiagnosed though. For instance if you have a person who moves around a lot, never stayed with the same person more than a year or so, never in contact with the family (we should assume that the family life was abusive to begin with). One can see a higher chance of people not noticing or knowing that the person is out of sync with the rest of the world.

After all I had undiagnosed petite-mal and absence seizures for decades before I started having grand-mal "obvious" seizures.

Hm. Any place you know of to give me more information, say how do they treat and bring the personalities back together - if possible.?

Thanks

David

Under those conditions it would be possible, but still unlikely, that the condition would go undiagnosed. For instance, the person would have to be employed, and it would be difficult for people not to notice different personalities even during a short-term employment.

Anyway, yes I agree that very serious conditions do go undiagnosed at times. I myself nearly died from a genetic disorder that went misdiagnosed for 14 years, and that was WITH a doctor looking for a problem!

Health-cyclopedia
Wikipedia--Dissociative identity disorder
WebMD--understanding mental disorders

Please note that scizophrenia and MPS are not the same thing, though the terms are commonly used interchangeably. Most people who have scizophrenia do not have multiple personalities, and vice versa. Scizophrenia is a psychotic disorder, where multiple personality syndrome is a dissociative disorder.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need more information and I'll see what I can do.

So the alter can be aware of the other let's call it the primary, be aware of the times it (he/she) is in control and when the primary is in control.

quote:

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Only one alter can control the body at any one time. Sometimes alters are co-conscious and share all memories.

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I think I have a direction I am going here. Let me use an EXAMPLE of that I am aiming for here:

There is John 1 born into the body being the primary. Somewhere around 10-12 years old John 2 was born, born out of the abuse at home, which included emotional and physical pain of such extremes that John 2 had to be "immune" to pain in order to endure.

Part of John 2's personality traits is his inability to emotionalize things, meaning to all things he is indifferent, has no "feeling" about. Thus is able to handle emergencies and make those hard choices where emotions tend to cloud logic.

Through most of their life John 2 sat in the back seat, watching, aware of all the life experiences, perhaps being a bit hyper critical of John 1's emotional side, laughing at jokes, falling in love, etc. But when ever the physical or emotional pain got to a certain point, John 1 and John 2 have a chinese fire drill and John 2 takes over, driving the body through the crises, being aware that John 1 is known and is expected and being aware or at least thinking that any sign that there is a John 2 would lead to hospitalization or something that would upset this relationship. Perhaps John 2 has a keener sense of self preservation owing to the reasons why he was born, to survive.

As time progressed the amount of pain (emotional and physical) that activated the switch lowered. Meaning that instead of times of severe crises causing the switch times of not so severe crises causes the switch. Thus when John 1 broke up with his first love, John 2 took over for a while. then years later when John 1 lost his dog, John 2 took over. Until one day when under normal everyday stresses John 2 found himself dealing with a minor issue.

At age 40 over the course of a normal, relatively stress free day John 1 takes a vacation and suddenly John 2 is in charge. First for that day, then for a week, then a month, then 6 months.

About a year goes by and John 2 has been in charge for all of that time. Finding himself in a marriage he does not want, with three kids, with a job he finds utterly boring, with a life which for him does not fit his personality. However he has been pretending to be John 1 and pretty successful at that since he has always been aware that his roll in that body has always been secondary and that he was, up until a year ago, only there to take care of the major issues.

The outside observer may label it as a mid-life crises, however John 2 is more aware of the whole situation and knows differently.

After a year of being careful to mimic and pretend to be John 1, laughing at inane jokes, pretending to love the wife and kids, pretending to find the job to be satisfying, pretending to enjoy life's everyday things, etc. John 2 believes that John 1 is never coming back. however there is an uncertainty there, since he can "feel" John 1 in the background "sleeping".

Now lets say that John 2 comes to you, confesses who he is, saying that he really does not wish to seek out professional help since he knows that this situation will lead to massive therapy, a major "crises" for his family who he is duty bound to "protect" from this sort of thing.

You, being his/their friend for years and years at first is uncertain, but as you think about it, you realize that yes about a year ago there was a distinct change in the flavor of John, one which you haven't been able to put your finger on, but in light of this confession many thousand little things add up, makes more sense about John.

Now you are uncertain what it is that John 2 is really seeking. He will not say what it is he ultimately wants from you on this subject, be it support or a telephone call to the authorities to get him help. But being his friend you want to help, but have no clue as what to do.

What would you do? What would you say?

If this sort of this sort of thing can happen like this, how does the freind deal with it and make sense of it all while maintaining their silence and yet still be supportive?

John 2 is caught between his desire/need to leave his wife and kids and is duty bound to maintain the illusion that he is John 1. I would suppose that John 2 is a distinct personality, an individual who would, under normal conditions, have a life of his own and would do things differently than John 1. What kind of advice would you give John 2?

David

I would try to reason with John 2 and tell him that his primary purpose in life was to help John 1, and he now has some choices:

1) he can maintain John 1's life as John 1 apparently wanted it to be, continuing to pretend to be John 1 until Johns 1 and 2 integrate or until John 2 "becomes" John 1 to the extent of there being little difference in the personalities

2) he can go to therapy and attempt to integrate until there is a John 3, an amalgam of Johns 1 and 2

3) if he is certain John 1 is never coming back, he should explain to his wife what happened and go off and live his own life. It is not fair to his family to maintain this illusion with his constant unhappiness, and it is not fair to John 1 to be subjugated to the background while John 2 lives his life for him.

Basicially, Johns 1 and 2 have to come to an agreement. If John 1 really isn't coming back, then John 2 needs to do what is best for John 2, because it is now his life. It is not healthy or fair to his family for him to remain there, pretending to be someone else, unless he intends to "be" John 1.

I hope this helps, this is just my opinion. I would strongly push for option 2, personally.

Three easy answers: easy to write or say, but each appears to have some difficult steps to undergo.

David

Human psychology is so complex. The only problem is, science ignores this. Science likes something they can put under a microscope and diagnose as a cancer cell. I feel this undermines a very important part of our healthy, psychology.

Given that psychology still is not taken all to seriously in the scientific community, there is little we can really know about any disorder that isn't repetitively seen with masses of people.

Multiple personality does not make the cut, being a minority. Is it possible that this is for real? Absolutely! The human mind is extremely complex and so are the disorders, which all of us have to some extent. Please, find me a normal person, with no neurosis!

John 1 had a difficult time with fitting in, being accepted, coping, etc. . . . perhaps a difficult time with what would be 15 things on a long, honest, and upsetting list. So over the years John 1 tried two things: various defense mechanisms and various actions. Well, maybe there are also a list of 7 defense mechanisms and a list of 30 actions.

What matters now is the past year and the present. Most actions, especially those which are not likely to be repeated, should be crossed off the actions list. Also, most triggers of the defense mechanisms and actions, especially triggers no longer present, should be crossed off the triggers list. We are left with also thinning out the list of defense mechanisms no longer applicable. What have we?

30 actions. . . . . . . now 5 actions
15 triggers . . . . . . now 5 triggers
7 defense mechanisms. . now 3 defense mechanisms

With a whole lot fewer values (5,5,3) to plug into the three variables (actions, triggers, and defense mechanisms), the road ahead looks a lot less distressing. However, the way to walk that uphill road is with a lighter load. In other words, the 5 actions, 5 triggers, and 3 defense mechanisms must be further reduced. At last, only those things which can be done and which also are what John 1 wants and needs to do should be done as soon as possible.

You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Congratulations!

I have a question, do we all have multiple personalities, depending on circumstance? I believe we do.

I can tell you, for fact, that I wear a mask at work. All members here think I am such a bitch. My patients like me. I fix problems. I deal with family, even the irate ones, well. I am extremely compassionate to my patients, but I am not to people on the net. I can't see or hear them, just read something.

I say and do all the right things to my patients and their family. I say all the wrong things here. Members would live in fear, if they happened to land in one of my beds, where I am in charge, as their nurse. You really would be lucky to get me, as your nurse, but who would really believe that, with my posts? Very true, but no one here would believe that.

Is there duality in my behavior? Yes. It goes well beyond that. I use a computer, talking to people, with fake names and no face that I can look into their eyes. I am harsh here. I can be a nightmare to deal with, if I believe I am ethically right to anyone who threatens me at all. I fear no one. I cannot be intimidated either.

My job forced me to be this way or starve. I got used to people attacking me, doctors, family, you name it. It is a learned trait to stand up for myself and never let them hurt me. I will go for the throat, anyone who tries, easily and quickly. This extreme of personality shows up at times. This is what I have to be to make a paycheck.

Put me in a formal social function. I will dress appropriately. I can easily make conversation with people. I am not the bitch you guys know. I am wearing a different mask. I converse with people I don't even know and am not shy about it. Given that I am not shy, I am not uncomfortable with people, as long as they don't shut you out because they don't know you.

How do I act at home? Any way I want to, which is not what you will see at work or a social function. Home is my space, not to be invaded by anyone. When the phone rings, it depends on who is on the other end how I will behave.

I do have many personalities that I easily present. I do not act the same with differing social circumstance. I have multiple personalities, for that matter. I show what people want out of me. I don't see a person on a net site, where I only read words, making it easy for me to be blunt with complete honesty of though, which I will not do with someone I can look at.

I probably have ten different ways of presenting myself. Does this make me multiple personality if I have memory of my behavior? Do I easily switch personality, for social reasons? Absolutely! I never act the same, depending on circumstance.

Is this multiple personality? Probably, but it is deliberate.

Wildflower63 brings to my mind the word "trust." Also, we live and learn, and as we live and learn, it seems that different folks present themselves differently. Some may not care what others think. Some may care too much what others think. Some choose to be actors/actresses when they are even bothering to think of choosing. The list is endless. Generally, from time to time a self-examination, which includes where one's heart and mind are at, is a good thing, especially when improvements in one's actions follow. At one extreme, life is a series of decisions, while at the other extreme, we trust so much that we are reckless. Perhaps a lot of experimentation with self-examination is in order.

I know a person who has a problem similar to this, only there's a few big differences.

Let's call this person Sally for convenience purposes.

Sally has confided her predicament in only a couple of her closest friends; she hasn't even told her parents. She claims that there is another existance inside of her; not another personality, and she is sure of that. Let's call this existance Jim. Sally claims that Jim is her older brother, technically; when Jim was created in his mother's womb, he miscarried or failed to become fully created in a sense. So he waited until Sally came along, then merged with her in a way. So, Sally was born, but there was another entire being sharing her brain.

Jim first came out when she was a very little girl and did something awful to a friend of hers at the time. He has since been coming in and out of power, though Sally remains the mostly dominant power. Jim has created a whole other world inside their brain that he "inhabbits" when Sally is in power, and when he is in power Sally "inhabbits" it. Jim creates elaborate characters and storylines and issues challenges to Sally and her close friends that know about Jim. He can, in some way, literally cause Sally pain if they fail the challenges he issues.

It is extremely clear that Jim and Sally are two different people. There is no way that Sally could be making Jim up because of the elaborate people, settings, storylines, and challenges that Jim creates. Also, Sally is very afraid of doctors diagnosing her and medication and all that sort of thing. Furthermore, she has had no trauma or abuse in her life (at least none that she has told anyone).

I'm wondering three things:

1) Could this be Multiple Personality Disorder, but Sally has made up the part about Jim being another cell and person merged with her to cope or keep herself from being diagnosed with something (or because she is a bit off in the head), or could Sally be lying about the lack of trauma in her life?

2) Could Jim really exist? Is it possible that it is not just another personality, but an another actual person sharing a brain and body with Sally?

3) Why, if Jim was supposedly miscarried while still undeveloped, was he not flushed out by his (and Sally's) mother's body?

As for the above posts:
If someone shows you who they are- believe them!


JS,

Welcome to AnswerPool.

I think Sally invented Jim to help her cope with problems. Sally is able to blame Jim for the wrong she does. Sally is a good person and can have Jim do things that Sally would never dream of doing. Sally probably does no wrong on her own. Jim does the wrong. If another person is to blame, Sally has no guilt. If Sally is angry, Jim can solve the problem for her. It sounds to me like Jim is Sally's ticket to do whatever she wants without consequences. After all, it wasn't really her that did the wrong.

Jim does not really exist.

I suggest that Sally get some professional help. "Jim" could end up really hurting someone and Sally could let him.

Also-

I don't think Sally is lying. I think Sally has convinced herself that Jim really exists. In her mind, he is real. Sally could be afraid to see a doctor who will find out the truth. Sally would then have to face her problems. Many times children create imaginary beings out of loneliness and fear. This escape can follow into adulthood.

There is also the possibility that Sally overheard her parents talking about another child when she was very young. The guilt of her own survival could have started the problem.

The possibilities are endless. I suggest she talk with someone.

Hi all,

There is a bit of a difference between MPD and dissociative disorder. The description of Sally and Jim... that would be more of an MPD situation... where there are 2 distinct personalities.. the kind of thing that many of us have seen on tv... different genders, different voices, different handwriting (you know how tv drama can play things up) where one can be aware of the other, but they don't fully integrate. True MPD has in recent years been found to be rather rare, but not unheard of... while dissociative disorder.. hmmm am i spelling that right... anyway... is more widely thought of as the response to severe abuse early in childhood.

I have a good friend who suffers from this. In fact, until we became close, she was totally unaware that she had dissociative episodes. She knew that she had time loss, that things triggered episodes of something that scared her. However, until I witnessed several episodes of what happens to her, she had no idea that she actually returns to being 8 years old when the majority of her abuse happened. She sees everything she saw, she hears the same things, she smells the same things, etc... it's as if what is actually around her in the here and now doesn't even exist. As far as her brain is concerned, she is back in 1973. This is just one example, and she has PTSD right along with it, as most do with this disorder. It's much like shell shock that you might be familiar with in Vietnam Vets, if you can imagine that.

Through much guided therapy, and purposefully triggering controlled episodes in sessions, she has been more and more able to remain present, and keep the dissociative moments to a minimum by learning what things trigger them, and how to snap herself back into the present. It has been a long hard road for her. Obviously, she has had to deal with a lot of painful issues that she never wanted to , or quite frankly ever thought she would be bringing to the surface.

I'm not sure if "on paper" that all makes sense or not...

Back to John 1 and John 2.....

The Johns were a bit hard for me to follow, but it almost sounds similar to a straight man realizing that perhaps he isn't... NOT that I'm suggesting this is John's situation.. I'm just using it as an example... in other words... what you described, David, doesn't sound to me so much like John has separate personalities, but more like he has consciously made choices that he perhaps is second guessing now, and unhappy with. Consequently, realizing that he is unahppy, changing his life around would require a lot of unpleasantness. There really isn't an easy answer.....unfortunately, life happens... as adults, we make choices, and we have to deal with them... he can either stay in the life he has made, and try to make it as pleasant as possible for all involved, or follow what his gut and heart are telling him to do, and deal with those set of consequences, regardless of the therapy or pain that it might involve. I don't mean to sound hard.... but it seems that all along, John 2 knew that John 1 was lurking and what John 1 really wanted and needed... and he didn't listen to his inner voice.....

ok i just re-read the johns lol... the first thing i would do.. is encourage john to tell his wife that he's feeling depressed.. if nothing else.. and to see a therapist. there's no harm in that. at least then, he's covered if there's a crisis, and getting some support. perhaps even something little kicked off a major depression which could actually explain a lot of wht john is going through...

ummm am i talking out of both sides of my mouth here?....