Do you think people who commit suicide are selfish because they are taking their life away from people who "love" them?
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09-01-02, 12:29 PM
kittypal
Peach, that's a hard question. If a person commits suicide just to say "there now how do you feel", yes it's selfish and immature. If someone just can't deal with life and has no hope I don't think it is selfish just very sad that they couldn't get help for themselves. I hope you're not thinking of killing yourself, if you are please go to your family or a friend, a councelor or e-mail one of us, there is always hope and things always get better even if you don't believe it.

09-01-02, 12:31 PM
displacedNYer
I think people who commit suicide are selfish because they would rather cause pain to every person who cares about them rather than deal with their own pain. That's just my opinion, I don't mean to offend anyone.

09-01-02, 12:48 PM
maxpower
well love i don't think they are selfish....i mean there are situations where you think it's the only option, but it's not. there are so many options one can take in this world. all you have to do is keep your mind clear and your possiblities open. just like this one icon i use to have on my aim " open your mind and admit the possiblities." i truely believe that a person has the answers to everything. people don't know that becuase they have thier mind clouded with no hope. a person has to believe in them selves and they can go far. it's all in the person's heart and thier mind's babe.......and this may sound a bit gay but it helps too.."just think happy thoughts and you can fly." yeah i know it's from peter pan but hey it's good advice. if you think happy thoughts..even though it may be difficult...you can fly above any problem. suicide is not selfish....it's sad, but not selfish or immature. people who commit suicide just don't realize that they have other options, and most also believe that by commiting suicide, that it would help out the people they love.....now i don't think that sounds selfish. remember to always think happy thoughts so we can fly together love. I love you. you are my girlfriend and i love you so much. take care. i hope i talk to you soon. i'll find a way to call you before i have to go. (hug) bye bye

09-01-02, 05:51 PM
kittypal
Maxpower, I didn't say all suicide was selfish, but I know someone who used to always say they wanted to kill themselves to make everyone sorry. That is immature, so you made them sorry, but guess what? You're not here to see how sorry you made them! I think suicide IS sad and have thought seriously of doing it myself, I always thought when my mom dies because I couldn't do that to her. Now I have made the decision with the support of the people here to seek help, Tuesday I see a doctor and am praying it works! I don't want to hurt my family or leave my kitties.

09-01-02, 08:35 PM
PerfectPeach
Kittypal, I am glad you are seeking help.. I think thats excellent!! And thanks for your answers. I was just looking for opinions of people.

09-01-02, 10:09 PM
maxpower
kittypal, hey i apologize if i made it sound like if i believed that you believed that all suidice victims were imatture. i know that sentences before may also sound confusing and i apologize for that too....but hey i know what you mean, and it's a good point. i'm happy that you are seeking help and hey if you need some one to talk to you can talk to me. take it easy

09-02-02, 07:15 AM
Elexina
No, I don't think people who committ suicide are selfish. I think they are very sad and hopeless and were in great need of help.
I agree, it is hard on the people left behind, but the person who committed suicide truly felt that they had nothing left, no hope, no reason to go on. It's not about anyone else.

09-02-02, 03:14 PM
cattywampus
To people who say "God never gives you more than you can bear," I say, "Tell that to the last suicide."

I have been suicidal many times. When the black dog (as Winston Churchill called it) of depression is on you, your last concern is whether you are being selfish, will hurt someone, etc. The black dog convinces you that they will not be hurt because they don't love you anyway, no one loves you, you have nothing to live for so why not stop the pain? It seems the only way out. You become convinced that it will always be this way, other options don't exist. It takes over your mind like alcohol does, and puts you to sleep. The black dog puts you to sleep permanently.

Catty (who is well now with medication) frown roll eyes

One in every 9 manic-depressives commits suicide.

09-03-02, 12:38 PM
displacedNYer
I wanted to add to my previous post that I attemped suicide 8 times between the ages of 12 and 18. Catty is right - you don't think of how you are being selfish. But looking back now I can see it. It was the easy way out - and I (and you) are too strong and too special to take the cop out.

09-04-02, 08:47 AM
Texan-In-Exile
For so much of my life, I kept the thought of suicide in my mind as an escape.
Then one day, a therapist asked me why I had NOT killed myself.
Then I realized - I didn't want to stop LIVING - I wanted to stop HURTING!

I can't say about the future, but right now I'm in a pretty good place as far as dealing with life. Meds and therapy helped, but some things I just had to figure out for myself, including making peace with the past.

(BTW - The reason I finally went to that therapist: My brother's suicide! It runs in my mother's side of the family.)

No, I don't think most suicidal people are being selfish. I know that they think that there is no other alternative.
I only wish that they could see beyond the dark side into what COULD be later, if they let someone help them now!
(And there was a time I thought never I'd say those words!)

Life really isn't that long, and time really does pass too fast as it is.
Texan-In-(You're not getting rid of me THAT easily!)Exile

09-07-02, 01:25 AM
babthrower
I'm a fighter and I think it's unlikely I'll ever commit suicide, and so I lack empathy in this case. The ones who do, I think, feel hopeless and cannot imagine things ever being better. (But I'm just guessing here.)

But if one is very old or very ill then suicide may well become an option, to end distress or pain which cannot be helped.

So if one has suicidal thoughts, but is otherwise healthy, perhaps that person should ask themselves: "If I feel overwhelmed because my personal relationships are empty and loveless, would it not be better to just start a new life? I will be lonely at first, but at least I will have a chance. If I die, I have no chance.'

I say this because I have seen people depressed beyond endurance by the demands of unreasonable parents, spouses or others. There comes a time when it may make sense to cut your losses, and start a new life.

The only truly selfish suicides are those who do not consider the survivors. I know of a case where a young boy found his father who had hanged himself in the family home. The suicide's action in this case was evil.

09-07-02, 05:33 PM
Julieta Martinez
I don't think people that are thinking of commiting suicide should think that there is nothing to live for..... The only reason you should keep going is for yourself. You have to take care of yourself and get on your feet emotially and then everything else will kick in. They'll see that it's a beautiful world out there. big grin

10-16-02, 08:22 AM
redder
Just came across your post!
Yes I do PP My father suffered greatly from Manic Depression http://www.mdf.org.uk/ and often talked of it(suicide)and I am so happy that he did not. He battled through his mental illness(through times so hard) and gave me so much understanding of this socially misunderstood illness.
I think my Dad might have heard long before it was written "Everybody hurts" by R.E.M. I can`t hear it without thinking of ths wonderful man I miss so much.
P.S. he sadly died of a heart attack in the back of my sister Valerie`s car at the age of 72 and I am so proud of him!

10-16-02, 03:35 PM
samantha
I think people who do this are just so deeply troubled that they can't reason another way out at the time. We do tend to think of it as selfish behavior because they are not only hurting their whole life but, of course the lives of the ones who love them. They are going to be left behind to pick up the pieces.I have once been depressed enough that I gave this a thought also,but, of course never acted it out.
As a RN I have seen alot of people come into the hospital that have done this and its a terrible time for the family.I think alot of us tend to judge them to hard because we don't understand how they can do something like this to "us".

10-17-02, 02:46 PM
cattywampus
So many don't understand. It isn't a matter of being selfish or unselfish, it isn't a matter of suicidal people choosing anything or "keeping their mind clear" or "not realizing" that they have other options." Suicides realize intellectually that they have options, but it doesn't matter. Depression takes over your mind just as alcohol does, and convinces you that there are really no options. It is not possible to "keep your mind clear" of your own efforts, unless you're being treated effectively or can do it manually somehow.

I have a niece who used to be very suicidal. She kept thinking about cutting her wrists all the time. I asked her, "But why do you want to commit suicide?" She looked at me as though I'd suddenly turned green. "I DON'T want to," she said. "That's the thing! I don't want to but I'm afraid I might, all the same."

In order to understand suicide (if anyone ever can) you need to talk to people who are suicidal. Ask them how they feel and take careful note of what they say. You can help more by listening than by pointing out that there are options, etc.

The last time I was suicidal my therapist told me
there wasn't anything to do except keep repeating to yourself, "This will pass. This will pass." The disease convinces you it won't, but if you keep repeating that you can maybe get through it.

Catty (who begs for understanding for the mentally ill) frown eek confused

10-22-02, 05:46 PM
Sherasi
As a teenager, I had Clinical Depression, but no one realized it.... "That moody teenager phase"... I plotted how to commit suicide for a long time.. a way to do it as painlessly as possible.

As an adult I have been depressed.. but suicide only really came to mind once. Many of you know my background, and there are many MANY details left out of even that.

I've never attempted, and GOD forbid, I never will. You do get over stressors and depression, but it is a long arduous process.

08-26-03, 06:37 AM
elbereth
I think it’s incredibly selfish to leave behind all those people who care about you and who’ll feel sad and guilty that they couldn’t help you. To be honest that’s the only thought that’s ever stopped me from doing some really stupid things this last year

08-26-03, 07:03 AM
Sherasi

quote:Originally posted by elbereth:
I think it’s incredibly selfish to leave behind all those people who care about you and who’ll feel sad and guilty that they couldn't help you. To be honest that’s the only thought that’s ever stopped me from doing some really stupid things this last year

You are absolutely right. The absolutely MOST SELFISH thing a person can do is to commit suicide... because you are thinking only of yourself and not at all of the pain, guilt and agony you will leave behind you.

11-02-03, 02:37 PM
mystery250
I have thought about doing it many times as you know. I dont really think it is selfish...

11-06-03, 01:59 AM
SeattleRon
Suicide
the only way i see suicide acceptable is if someone had an uncurable illness, and they wanted to die with dignity. Jack Kevorkian I feel he was just complying with his patient's wishes.
If I was terminally ill, I wouldn't want to put my family through having to watch me wither away and die. I'd ask for a couple weeks to spend time with them and then sign my life away. At least I'd die with dignity and not with everybody I love watching me go down to a dead wrinkled corpse.

11-19-03, 11:06 AM
harleydudette
I saw this post and just had to respond......
A couple of months after my son was born I was at the very worst point in my life. I won't go into the details but trust me when at the time I thought suicide was the only way to stop the pain. I'm not going to say that suicide is selfish or not.......but at the time I was thinking that my pain was also causing pain to my family and freinds so by ending it for me it would also end it for them.
My (now ex)husband was out running around (as usual) and I was at home with my kids (ages 14 yrs old and 2 months) sitting in a tub of very hot water with a razor blade. The only thing that stopped me was that I was afraid that my son would need something during the night and my daughter wouldn't hear him or that my daughter would be the one to find me. I am so glad that I didn't because life has gotten so much better. I now have the life that I want and deserve. I did get help and now have made up my mind that nothing and no one will ever take me back to that place. If anyone ever needs someone to talk to just email me.

11-19-03, 12:03 PM
Georgia85
Dudette, thanks for sharing your story with us. Yours is the classic example of the old adage that Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I am glad your life has improved so much for you and that you have grown from those experiences.

And welcome to your new family here at the pool Smile

11-19-03, 02:27 PM
megan_09
I think that sometimes when people commit suicide they are being selfish...

They are taking the easy way out is the way that I see it. People that do that just cant deal with the hand that life has given them, and most of the time they probably dont take the time to think about all the people they will be hurting in the process.

A kid that use to go to my school shot himself in the head because of some girl. He was only 19 years old. His twin brother is the one that found him...I just think that there are other ways to deal with your anger and sadness...

But then again thats only my opnion..
.
11-19-03, 05:44 PM
aminator2002
The two people close to me who have done it were clearly in unbelievable pain and very sick. I hope that some day people will think of this as an illness as it is. A healthy mind does not consider suicide for any reason... there is nothing "selfish" or "pitiful" about it.

Teenagers may have strange reasons for considering it, but as a healthy teenager I never considered it, so I do not think it is "selfish"... I think it is a matter of health vs. sickness.

11-19-03, 07:06 PM
dogspit
It is probably only because of how
it would effect my family that I
have not committed suicide. Calling
someone's act of desperation selfish
is an easy way to tidily wrap up the
act in a nice package and dispose of
it. It is much easier than asking why,
and what could have possibly been
done to help the person. I would like
to think there will come a day where
I never think of suicide, but, for now
it is a very real part of who I am.
(But, I am working on that, just
not as much as I should be)

11-19-03, 10:10 PM
honilov
Dog, it's really strange how we get an image of cyber friends in our mind, but I would have never thought you had suicidal notions. You seem so strong and outgoing, and it's hard to imagine you not being happy.

I don't see suicide as being selfish at all.

11-19-03, 10:21 PM
megan_09
I am sorry if I offended anyone...Frown That is just the way that I see it..

11-19-03, 10:40 PM
Sherasi
You haven't offended anyone.

The ability to express opinions and discuss how we disagree is part of what makes this site great. Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin

11-20-03, 06:27 PM
honilov
Megan, your opinions are very well respected, and I hope you didn't think I was talking to you when I said that I didn't see suicide as selfish. You and I just have a difference of opinions, that's all. Smile

11-20-03, 06:36 PM
puppyblues
Well, what's NOT selfish about it??? When you are dead, you are gone. Done. Nothing left. But, what have you left behind?? So many hurt people and some of them will never get over it. THAT is selfish. Unless you are terminally ill, I think it's the most selfish act you can commit.

11-21-03, 08:56 AM
aminator2002
That is one way to look at it puppy. The problem here is that suicide is caused by a sickness in my opinion (and in the opinion of most doctors) and that sickness is often treated by people as being under the control of the people who suffer from it. Depression and mental disorders that cause people to take their lives are not in control of those people.

Suicide is not usually done as Megan describes "to get back at someone"... it is usually the result of a long and painful illness that leaves someone feeling there is no alternative. I feel that it is like losing someone to cancer and would never call a cancer death "selfish".

I understand that if you think of suicide as a choice someone makes to get back at people or a tool that someone uses because of simple unhappiness that you might call it selfish. The fact is that many people are unhappy and many people have unhappy breakups and they don't even consider suicide. It is a mental illness to even consider suicide.

My friends who died of depression were in horrible pain and the way they were treated was deplorable. I hope that one day people will recognize that this isn't a choice that sane and healthy people would ever choose. It certainly has no benefit to the person who does it to call it "selfish"...

Incidentally, I have lost two people to suicide over the years. My father who taught school for 26 years has lost 23 students to suicide. More than any other illness before the students started to have heart attacks at 50. None of these people did this for a easily classifiable reason... i.e. "loss of job", "a bad break-up" or sexual abuse or anything like that. All these deaths were caused by clinical depression.

The shame is that this idea that it is so "selfish" leave the families feeling ashamed of the lost loved ones and there is a stigma to the death. It is the same stigma that causes people to not tell someone that they are suffering. It's all a huge shame.

11-21-03, 02:12 PM
puppyblues
I agree with you, Ami, about it being a mental illness. One of the worst illnesses ever. But there is help out there now, more help then ever before. People need to use these resourses when it becomes this serious.

I too have lost friends and even some family to suicide. I'm still very angry at a few of them for what they left behind. I see it as a way to get out and not face reality. Facing reality is the hardest thing, but they would have had help the whole way through, they just chose to end it and leave us hanging.

And while I agree with you on the most part, I still think it's the most selfish thing one could do.

11-21-03, 05:31 PM
honilov
Puppy, some people that commit suicide are thinking of other people when they do it. They feel that they are a burden to their family and that the family would be better off without them. In cases like that, they are not selfish. However, in some cases some might do it for selfish reasons just to hurt someone. In either case, it's still a sickness.

11-21-03, 08:12 PM
Tree
I dunno... I can't even relate to committing such an act. I have known people who have and it's tragic without doubt.

"Selfish" is the wrong word. I think these people honestly think that they have no way to turn. Can I commit suicide?? NO WAY? Am I selfish or chicken or what am I? - what are they? Selfish, chicken or what? I don't think they're selfish. They're sick and have run out of hope.

Frown

11-22-03, 12:45 PM
kittypal
The only time I think it's selfish is when a person say's "see how they'll feel when I kill myself" or if they leave a "blame" note behind. I am like dog, I would do it in an instant if it weren't for the fact that it would hurt my brother and my kitties would be all alone. I have tried getting help, it hasn't worked yet.

11-22-03, 02:16 PM
puppyblues
Okay, maybe I'm just seeing it in a different way because of the way that my Uncle did it.

He was hopped up on drugs, had his pregnant girlfriend with him and he and my grandmother were having an argument. They were in my grandmothers room and he had a gun. He looked my grandmother right in the eyes and said, 'Fine, see how you like this' and he shot himself in the head. My grandma had to watch her last son (my real father died of cancer and my other uncle died in a tornado) blow his brains out right in front of her, in her own bedroom. HE WAS SELFISH! Mad

Kitty, God has a plan for you. You are here for a reason and there would be way more people hurt then your brother and kitties. FrownFrownFrown

11-22-03, 03:06 PM
kittypal
Awwwww, pup, I am sorry for the way your uncle did that...sorry for the family and him, that is what I meant though, they seem to do it for the sole purpose of hurting someone.

and thank you for saying that about me, you always make me smile and I love you for it!

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