So here's how we chose the albums for the All-TIME 100. We researched and listened and agonized until we had a list of the greatest and most influential records ever - and then everyone complained because there was no Pink Floyd on it. And that's exactly how it should be. We hope you'll treat the All-TIME 100 as a great musical parlor game. Read and listen to the arguments for the selections, then tell us what we missed or got wrong. Or even possibly what we got right. - Time -------- The article has 101 pages, a page per album, with a complete list on page 1. The list starts in the 1950s.
I'm interested in AP members' reactions. I think that most on AP will see the 80s, 90s, and 2000s as underrepresented, just as I see Jazz and Big Bands underrepresented.
I would have included
a Stan Getz album, probably Getz-Gilberto (1964) (4 Grammys) Listen here "Let's face it. We [tenor saxophonists] would all play like him, if we could." —John Coltrane -- Sinatra's Only the Lonely (1959)
Grammy-winner for album design in 1959. I think this is far better than the two Sinatra choices on Time's list. Forget the later Sinatra (My Way; New York, New York), listen to either early Sinatra or Sinatra from the mid 50s - late 60s. "Sinatra at the Sands" is another great album.
Warning: This album, Only the Lonely, is not for the depressed unless you want to wallow in your depression. -- a Jerry Lee Lewis album (not so much for the album's influence itself, but for Lewis' overall influence) -- Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon - A Four Tops album (again, for their overall influence) -- some recognition of Louie Armstrong - One of these with his early work. The man's music influenced not only every Jazz musician, but Blues, Big Band, and, through those, Rock. You'll hear Armstrong licks in some Rock tunes in the 60s & 70s. -- SEND MORE CHUCK BERRY - John Lennon was a bit more eloquent: "If you tried to give rock and roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." When Keith Richards inducted Berry into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame he said, "It's hard for me to induct Chuck Berry, because I lifted every lick he ever played!" The Beach Boys' hit "Surfin' USA" resembled Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen" so closely that they were forced to give Berry a co-writing credit in order to avoid a lawsuit. His career started pre-Rock, and he still has influence. (He still gives concerts, too. Chuck has a regular gig at St. Louis' Blueberry Hill, playing about every other month. Tickets are usually $25.) -- Fats Domino - Surely something by The Fat Man deserves to be on this list. Fats' 1949 album, "The Fat Man", is regarded by many as THE first Rock & Roll record. Isn't that about as influential as you can get? Fats was the best-selling African-American singer in the mid-50s until the early 60s. -- Charlie Parker - This Wikipedia entry, while only touching on Parker's greatness, still gives more than enough reason why no list of influential albums is complete without Parker. Read the Memorials section to see just how many were influenced by him, and how diverse an audience he had. -- And where the H is Duke Ellington ? The Duke started his career in the early 1920s, and his influence is still felt today. All Jazz groups and Big Bands still play his tunes, and older rockers are getting back into American standards, many of which are Ellington tunes. And the man had style. -------- OK, that's my opinion. What's yours?
Note: I only included the Sinatra album cover because the cover itself won a Grammy. Please don't post covers just because you like them. If, however, the cover won an award, then feel free to post it, remembering the AP size limit for images. **************************************************************** 11-15-06, 02:17 PM VelvetVoice UGH! What a crappy list. The first two list (2000s and 1990s), most of these I recognize the names only, and a handful I have heard. Is music really that awful? There must be other stuff than rap to put on that list.
I can at least understand most of the 60s, 70s, 80s, although I would say that most of that popularity is genre-driven.
I can't get past the first page though. So I don't know what is posted for before 1950s. Nothing like the best movies list.
Most of my fave music will never be on this list. I guess I'm too out there with musical taste.
11-15-06, 03:32 PM DorianGreyed I think the list deals only with 33 1/3 LPs and CDs. LPs were introduced in 1948.
11-15-06, 03:37 PM Colin, Paris, France Mmmm. These lists are impossible to draw up, especially if you start by allowing compilation albums such as the Elvis No 1s. That said though, there's a lot I agree with, though like VeletVoice I can't get my mouse past the first page. I'm glad that Radiohead and that fine Oasis album and REM and the Stone Roses are included, but disagree with others. I think Count Basie is a big omission for his influence was enormous - but I like much of the list's take on the Seventies, even if I could add a completely different list of my own. As for the Sinatras, Dorian, inclusion of Songs for Swingin' Lovers is a must for me (great cover I remember thinking way back when I borrowed it from a friend's parents at school, all that soft gold and the trademark hat), the songs are perfection for what they are. Would I add Only the Lonely? Definitely, and a million times over; how could anyone miss THAT off such a list, and it had Nelson Riddle again, I note in passing, as musical arranger and confidant. But I think that three by Sinatra is probably enough, because In the Wee Samall Hours isn't half bad either. Sinatra at the Sands? Make it four. September of my years? I'm happiest with the sixties and seventies, where some classic albums are rightfully included, but find the 2000s to be a bit thin on the ground - Sam Cooke? Elvis? Hank Williams? - The 2000s?).
11-15-06, 04:36 PM jusork I'm interested to hear why you guys don't like many of the 90s and 00s selections. Most of the albums there ARE great albums. How can you begin to criticize the list when, for most of them, you've only recognize their names. Are there any of the albums you're criticizing even in the handful that you say you've listened to? Is there some kind of criticism in the statement that you only recognize a few names, as if you expect the albums to find you? If you don't keep up with contemporary music, that's not going to happen. Most of those rap albums are VERY creative and full of talent. Let's hear some fair criticism here.
What albums do you think are missing from the 80s, 90s, and 00s to make it underrepresented? I think it's represented. Although, like Colin said, 2000 does look weird. I bet they could've had a few more in place of four collection albums.
The real problem of making lists is that there are so many great albums and such a very, very, very broad spectrum to consider. It takes great criticism to find the greatest ever out of the very greatest. I can't complain with this one though.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: jusork, 11-15-06 03:52 PM
11-15-06, 05:25 PM DorianGreyed Justin, the fact that 4 out of the 9 albums for the 2000s on that list are tunes of guys who died over two decades ago should tell you something.
McKinley Morganfield aka Muddy Waters (April 4, 1915 or 1913 – April 30, 1983) Elvis Aron Presley (January 8, 1935 – August 16, 1977) Sam Cooke (January 22, 1931 – December 11, 1964) Hiram "Hank" King Williams (September 17, 1923 – January 1, 1953)
In another thread somewhere, I have acknowledged that some rap is good poetry; most isn't, but some is. Some of it is insightful social commentary. But I have yet to hear any of it that can be rightly called music. Reading poetry to a beat just isn't music, even good poetry.
"How can you begin to criticize the list when, for most of them, you've only recognize their names."
I don't like ham & beans, and I don't have to taste everyone's recipe to know that I don't like ham & beans. However, turning the tables, I bet that there are more people who don't like Jazz who haven't heard the albums I mentioned in my first post. I've heard Kanye West and Eminem. I don't like them. (They shouldn't feel bad; I never liked Presley either, or most of Williams.) I have probably heard many other recent ones on the list, but nothing to make me want to find out "Who sang that?" People like what they like. The only thing I can say is that, musically, the styles that I mention are far more interesting than what is popular now. To me, you are trying to sell jug wine while I have a glass of Château Mouton-Rothschild in front of me.
11-15-06, 06:40 PM Karrow Strange list; many of them are certainly not what I'd have chosen. But then music, like art, is subjective, so I doubt any two people would agree on a Top 100 list.
No surprise to find "Sgt Pepper" and "Pet Sounds" in the 60s list, and I do agree with them being there. I don't know enough about later decades to choose, but I'm very disappointed that Queen aren't on the list.
The link at the bottom of page 1 wouldn't respond when I clicked on it, but right clicking on it and then clicking on open in the menu worked.
11-16-06, 12:01 AM jusork
quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed: Justin, the fact that 4 out of the 9 albums for the 2000s on that list are tunes of guys who died over two decades ago should tell you something.
McKinley Morganfield aka Muddy Waters (April 4, 1915 or 1913 – April 30, 1983) Elvis Aron Presley (January 8, 1935 – August 16, 1977) Sam Cooke (January 22, 1931 – December 11, 1964) Hiram "Hank" King Williams (September 17, 1923 – January 1, 1953)
Oh yeah, I definitely noticed it. That was why it looked weird.
quote:
In another thread somewhere, I have acknowledged that some rap is good poetry; most isn't, but some is. Some of it is insightful social commentary. But I have yet to hear any of it that can be rightly called music. Reading poetry to a beat just isn't music, even good poetry.
"How can you begin to criticize the list when, for most of them, you've only recognize their names."
I don't like ham & beans, and I don't have to taste everyone's recipe to know that I don't like ham & beans. However, turning the tables, I bet that there are more people who don't like Jazz who haven't heard the albums I mentioned in my first post. I've heard Kanye West and Eminem. I don't like them. (They shouldn't feel bad; I never liked Presley either, or most of Williams.) I have probably heard many other recent ones on the list, but nothing to make me want to find out "Who sang that?" People like what they like. The only thing I can say is that, musically, the styles that I mention are far more interesting than what is popular now. To me, you are trying to sell jug wine while I have a glass of Château Mouton-Rothschild in front of me.
You don't have to know all ham and beans to know if you like ham and beans, but to form an idea about how many of all the different kind of h&b are bad h&b, you have to try at least a great deal before you give up. Same with rap. You have to try a lot of it to know how much rap is good and how much is bad, and how big it is. You have to do that before you think you can say what most rap is like. Considering that rap is way more diverse than I assume ham and beans is, rap has many more possibilities. Think of all the different kinds of jazz but how ready are they to think jazz is so much more simpler. And there's a difference between judging what you like and judging creativity and talent. As you said, you don't like Elvis or Hank, but you know they're talented and creative enough to be on the list.
I don't understand why poetry and a beat wouldn't be music. Rap isn't just poetry to a beat anyway. It's rhythmic poetry to a musicial beat. Clearly music. As for whether or not its good poetry, I'd never put most rap at the same standards as beautiful lyric poetry, but I wouldn't consider most other music to be either. I consider rap to be the same as other music in terms of creativity overall. What makes rap creative? The expression of words, phrases, or ideas in a flow. What's not creative about that?
11-16-06, 12:53 AM DorianGreyed "You have to try a lot of it to know how much rap is good and how much is bad, and how big it is. You have to do that before you think you can say what most rap is like."
I'm not trying to say what rap is. I am saying that I don't like it. I've heard enough to know I don't like it. I had to chaperone dances in an urban middle school. I heard what was popular. I didn't like it. Why would I want to listen to something I don't like? I'm very happy listening to what I do like.
We disagree with what is and isn't music, but there is no need to discus that issue.
"What's not creative about that?"
I didn't say that it wasn't creative. I said that I didn't like it and I didn't consider it music. Something can be creative, and have nothing to do with music. I didn't complain that that rap artists were included in Time's list, although I question the influence they really have on Music. In 50 years, I don't think people will be playing the rap albums that are now popular. It's already been 50 years for some of the people I mentioned, and not only are people playing the albums, but some of them made Time's list for most influential in the last six years. That's somewhat like John Ashcrof's losing an election to a dead man, only those guys have been dead for decades.
Justin, you can do a great many things to alter the taste of ham & beans, but in the final analysis, you still have ham & beans. I don't like ham & beans, and I don't plan on tasting recipes until I find some I like. I don't like rap, and I don't plan on listening to rap until I find something I like. I'll be fine, and so, unfortunately, will rap. Neither of us need each other.
11-16-06, 03:20 AM Ritzmar Wot, no Tiny Tim??? Eek
11-16-06, 08:37 AM aminator2002 Clearly a list made by and for baby-boomers. Roll Eyes
Many of the albums in the 2000's are retrospectives... give me a break. That is just BS.
11-16-06, 02:31 PM jusork Well, if you just can't aesthetically get into rhythmic poetry (which is basically what rap is, at least when its good), that's understandable. And you give it some respect, saying its creative and some of its good, but I bet you could find more to respect in rap as a whole if you heard more of the talent. I wouldn't recommend judging any rap you hear at a dance. It's not made to be respected. It's rap that's meant to be danced wildly to. It's pure entertainment, not talent. Lots of pure entertainment rap is played on the radio, too. And just because its on the radio doesn't mean those are the rap songs that most fans would put on their favorites list. I bet if we were talking about something important and I said there was more to it, you'd check it out.
I'm interested in understanding what music is for you and why rap isn't music. Since you say it's creative, I can't help but think you say it because you just haven't heard any of the talent. Depending on the rap, I think it varies between talented flow and talented lyrical expression. Lyrical expression is easy enough to get, but I bet flow doesn't get much acknowledgement from people who are used to other types of music.
11-16-06, 05:27 PM DorianGreyed "...I bet you could find more to respect in rap as a whole..."
Don't bet more than you can afford to lose.
Justin, I can't put it any more clearly. I don't like it. (And for the record, I said some of the poetry is good.)
An easy definition, not all inclusive, but good enough to eliminate rap from the discussion, is that music involves notes. I was not a fan of John Cage, either, although I do wish more rap artists would follow the lead he set with his work titled 4′33″.
11-16-06, 09:19 PM jusork Well that's an odd definition, but at least it makes sense.
I guess that's the song he did where he played nothing?
11-16-06, 09:47 PM dogspit Looking at the list made me shake my head a bit, but, it is mostly a "critic's darling" and politically correct list.
Mary J. Blige's album is in there for the 90's, yet Alanis Morissette's "Jagged Little Pill", arguably the best album by a solo female artist since Carole King's "Tapestry", is not ?
Bob Dylan's 90's album "Time Out of Mind" hardly seems worthy of the list.
The Stone ROses make the 80's list, but Guns N' Roses' "Appetite for Destruction", which rebirthed the metal genre is not.
No place for "Slippery When Wet" on the list ?
I don't know... I just think the first essential criteria must be the disqualifying of anything that is a compilation of past hits.
11-16-06, 10:54 PM DorianGreyed "I guess that's the song he did where he played nothing?"
Yep, and he did it so well.
11-17-06, 10:04 AM VelvetVoice I listen to music to boost a happy mood, to help me express emotions, to go to places I may never see. Rap is filled with violence, depression, sexual exploitation, what reason do I have to listen? I do like the beats, but I can get that from several other types of music.
I agree with DG, most of the stuff I like will never appear on commercial radio. Also, the best musicians are never popular. Unless you know someone with money or connections in the business, and even then you need to find a willing audience. Nowadays, the internet (and satellite radio) has created niches. I heard Richie Blackmore the other day, he was in Deep Purple, one of the most influential bands of the 70s. He is now making Renaissance music with his wife, in a band called Blackmore's Night.
There are many more obscure bands that I would listen to regularly. Heck, one of the people in my old folk group made a great CD recently. I am truly inspired. I have started working on a CD with my daughter. I'm going to write a song using stuff from AP, I guess I'll need permissions from some of you. Really, I will be inspired by your words, not necessarily using stuff wholesale. Have any of you got a patent on a feeling?
11-17-06, 05:02 PM jusork
quote: Originally posted by VelvetVoice: Rap is filled with violence, depression, sexual exploitation, what reason do I have to listen?
That's a blatant generalization. Along with rappers who are purely positive-focused, you could even easily find many serious, positive, and issue-oriented songs by the same rappers who have songs that include characteristics like the ones mentioned above. And depression? If there's anything popular in rap, its confidence.
quote: Also, the best musicians are never popular. Unless you know someone with money or connections in the business, and even then you need to find a willing audience.
Clearly not true. You make it seem like even the less popular talent barely has an audience. There's only one thing you really need and that's an audience. So for the most part, it has to be enjoyable. If an artist has that, it's certainly not hard to find an audience. If they have something to enjoy, then some group of people will like it and in turn, the artist could very well get signed. A variety of different talented artists are signed to major labels all the time, and even artists on indie labels can become popular and cause major labels to pick them up.
You can use anything I say. I think it'd be interesting to use our actual words though. A lyric collage.
11-20-06, 05:53 PM coldfuse A couple that added to the musical landscape:
GNR - Appetite for Destruction Van Halen - Van Halen Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out The Police - Synchronicity Allman Brothers Band - The Allman Brothers at Fillmore East
Anybody think some musical soundtracks are worthy of consideration?
11-21-06, 02:10 AM dogspit
quote: Originally posted by coldfuse: Anybody think some musical soundtracks are worthy of consideration?
One could easily argue that the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack was pretty much the album of the decade for the 70's. And, as far as actual "musicals", West Side Story was certainly big enough and impactful enough... as well as The Sound of Music, both huge impacts on the 60's.
11-21-06, 02:48 AM DorianGreyed
Excellent point, Spit. While I am not a big fan of disco, the SNF soundtrack certainly influenced music a great deal. I think some of the choices here reflect popular rather than influential albums. (Best is a matter of individual taste.) Just using songs as an example, Armstrong's "Hello, Dolly" or "What a Wonderful World" were certainly his most popular, but they were hardly his best, nor were they influential. Sinatra's "NY, NY" or "My Way" were heard by far more than his earlier work, but neither were influential, nor does any student of music consider either to be his best work. But, as you mention, SNF was both hugely popular and hugely influential.
Missing as well from the list is some recognition of the girl groups in the late 50s and early 60s. Like them or not, there were a great many of them, and they just didn't all spring up at once. Likewise, no recognition is given to the huge folk movement that started in the late 50s, and was still big well into the 70s. I don't know if it was Peter, Paul, and Mary, the Kingston Trio, or someone earlier like the Weavers, Woodie Guthrie, or Pete Seeger, but someone started that ball rolling, and it never really stopped. Dylan grew out of that folk explosion. Those who really don't know how big and influential folk music was at one time should read the Wikipedia links to those people I mentioned.
I think the soundtrack from "The Graduate" was far more influential than Simon and Garfunkel's later "Bridge Over Troubled Water."
11-21-06, 10:30 AM dodgecity hey where's pink floyd. OH wait ive found him Big Grin Razz
11-21-06, 08:37 PM Julieta Martinez I thought that was a pretty good list. As long as MJ´s thriller is on it, it´s ok with me. Course my popular musical knowledge is the 90´s and up so I can´t give my opinion on anything older.
11-21-06, 09:15 PM DorianGreyed While I don't care for Jackson's music, I agree that Thriller was influential, especially if you take the video in account. (Getting Vincent Price to do a voiceover was a stroke of genius, although it was done before. Price was exactly the right person for what he did.)
11-30-06, 11:25 AM MrsS Good God! What rock were these people under while they compiled this list? No Kinks? No Janis Joplin? NO FREAKIN' ZAPPA???? No Ozzy? Guns & Roses, Use Your Illusion (I&II) damn well should have been there. No Baez? No Guthrie, Woodie or Arlo? No Loretta Lynn? No Tina Turner? No Morrisette? What in heavens name is "Hole" doing on this list...? Brooks and Dunn,Tim McGraw, Faith Hill, Linda Rondstadt, Jimmy Buffet, Warren Zevon, Meatloaf and Billy Joel are all missing... Do these people own or have access to a record player? The Woodstock album is missing, as are "No Nukes" and the soundtracks from "The Blues Brothers" and "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" A Tribe Called Quest but no Grandmaster Flash or West Coast All-Stars? No Springsteen? No Doors? No Seger or Seeger? Clapton? J.J. Cale? Shawn Colvin? No Pink Floyd?... How do you make a list of contemporary music without including Pink Floyd? I can make a more representative list JUST using my collection of VINYL!
11-30-06, 08:58 PM dance girl Smile Well you are shocked because it doesnt include any of the music you like MrsS but that's Ok because it doesn't include any or much of the music I like either. Or others for that matter on answerpool. That's the beauty of music: we all like different things and feel passionate enough about it to write on here. Yes I think it should have included Pink Floyd and Van Morrison oh and lots of others, but I don't care because lists of music wont make me feel I have to change my listening habits. I'd be more inclined to give something a listen to, if someone said to me on here.."Oh you just have to have a listen to this.." Smile
11-30-06, 09:43 PM MrsS Actually DanceGirl, much of what I object to the exclusion of is NOT music I especially love but that which my background in the industry tells me has been influential, groundbreaking or revolutionary. If I were merely whining, as you seem to think, about my favorites not being there, the list of artists would have been quite different.
12-01-06, 10:48 AM aminator2002 Not to mention the Grateful Dead who have inspired a whole new fleet of rock bands out there and could be considered the influence for the largest successful rock festival in the 2000's (Bonaroo). I think the oversight of Phish in the 90's is a real mistake because they were the first to pick up the torch after Jerry Garcia died. And speaking of influential... the man has an ice cream named after him?
Pink Floyd is a ridiculous oversight. I mean, how absurd that they didn't put The Wall or Darkside on there. I believe the Wall is a movie still shown around the country in theaters.
They seem enamored with Radiohead, and one album would have been sufficient in my opinion considering the lack of other greats represented.
To me, there are a ton of bands in the 90's that changed the course but I suppose there is a connection since the list basically says that there is nothing worthwhile since the year 2000.
Where is Moby? Death Cab for Cutie or Postal Service? Pearl Jam? Why on earth do they have Oasis but not these other bands? Phish? Sufjan Stevens? It seems that they have no electronica or jam band representation.
I think that if they had to redo the list and just put on albums and no retrospectives that the list would change dramatically. When you think of an album like Nirvana Nevermind and how it changed things in rock and how other bands immediately started altering their sound... (same with Phish and Pearl Jam) well how does the background on that compare to a retrospective of Elvis... out of sequence completely and not about the 1990's at all. Isn't it more important to put in the albums by Elvis that were influential in their time? I think Born to Run is a good example - rather than putting in Bruce Springsteen's greatest hits. I think Born in the USA should be on the list for the 90's.
BTW - Van Morrison is well represented. Not sure what list dancegirl is looking at. To me they could have given him Moondance and left it at that to make room for the others that they didn't include.
(none of these are my favorite bands. I just don't think they did a good job on the 90's and 2000's.)
12-01-06, 11:35 AM MrsS Thanks, Ami, I refrained from mentioning the Dead or its individual members for fear that my connection would make me look hopelessly biased, but the "Jam Band" genre would not exist without them.
12-01-06, 04:13 PM jusork
quote: Originally posted by aminator2002: Death Cab for Cutie or Postal Service? Sufjan Stevens? It seems that they have no electronica or jam band representation.
Do you think Death Cab, Poastal Service and Sufjan are really that influential? They all formed pretty late in the indie world. And yeah, they could've at least had Moby's Play, but I'm glad they had DJ Shadow. He's kind of electronic.
12-01-06, 08:12 PM dance girl
quote: Originally posted by MrsS:
If I were merely whining, as you seem to think, about my favorites not being there, the list of artists would have been quite different.
No I didn't say you were whining. I said we all have different tastes in music..that's something quite different. And whether or nor you have a music industry background doesnt in the end influence somebody's personal taste. After all the people that put together the list we are talking about, have " music indusry back grounds" . But what i'm saying is that in the end lists don't really matter cos we all have our own favourite albums we think influenced the progression of music. Smile
12-02-06, 08:23 AM aminator2002
quote: Do you think Death Cab, Poastal Service and Sufjan are really that influential? They all formed pretty late in the indie world. And yeah, they could've at least had Moby's Play, but I'm glad they had DJ Shadow. He's kind of electronic.
It's hard to say if they will be influential at this point. They merely represent the music that is shaping the music scene, at least part of it, at the moment. I think putting REM "Out of Time" into the 90's is an example of a group that had incredible influence with their earlier music, represented on the list with an album that shaped a time frame of music in this country - Out of Time was NOT an influential album musically - it was just super popular. If they wanted to put music of REM's that influenced people then Murmur would have been a better choice.
I guess I don't really know much about Rap so I find it harder to comment on their selections but you don't see a group like Run DMC on there and I thought that they did more to shape what was to come than some of the later bands.
So do I have an argument to specifically include Death Cab or Postal Service... not except that if you want to put a band that represents the new shape of things in the broadly listened to music world, then they represent this time pretty well. The exclusion of Moby's "Play" album was the first thing that I noticed as lacking.. or rather the most obvious oversight.
The inclusion of Oasis is really mystifying me. Same feeling about "Hole"... MrsS agrees with that confusion.
Some others that come to mind are Beck and Red Hot Chili Peppers... why are the RHCP's not on this list? I think for the 2000's the exclusion of the White Stripes is noticeable and their album will likely be one that stands up and influences people.
In a sense dancegirl is right, but this list deserves some flack since they are representing themselves to be authorities.
12-02-06, 10:16 AM MrsS The folks at TIME claim this to be "a list of the greatest and most influential records ever" and reading through this thread, and the comments over at the TIME site, it would seem I am far, far from alone in saying they seriously missed the mark. I was born into the industry and earned a living in the business for nearly 15 years, my opinion here has less to do with my personal taste than an extensive knowledge of musical trends and history. DanceGirl, the purpose of this thread is to express and exchange opinions about this list. If you do not feel that lists matter,great, fabulous, very open minded of you (I mean that sincerely)but kindly stop hassling me about my take on this list.
12-02-06, 07:56 PM jusork
quote: Originally posted by aminator2002: I guess I don't really know much about Rap so I find it harder to comment on their selections but you don't see a group like Run DMC on there and I thought that they did more to shape what was to come than some of the later bands.
So do I have an argument to specifically include Death Cab or Postal Service... not except that if you want to put a band that represents the new shape of things in the broadly listened to music world, then they represent this time pretty well. The exclusion of Moby's "Play" album was the first thing that I noticed as lacking.. or rather the most obvious oversight.
I see Run-DMC on there. And they got Paid in Full which is definitely essential. I find a lack of earlier rap understandable. Artists like Kurtis Blow and Grandmaster Flash were influencial because they were the first artists on major labels, but they didn't really do that much muscially that wasn't already done as far as I now. And there aren't any recordings of the rappers that actually created rap.
I see. I'd understand White Stripes over Death Cab. I'm sure there've been some other worthy ones, but they aren't coming to my mind.
12-02-06, 08:17 PM MrsS As much as I dislike most rap, I have immense respect for some of it and I gotta point out that Grandmaster Flash's significance goes way beyond having been among the earliest artists signed to major labels. Some current artists talk about "Old School" Grandmaster Flash is the Old School, on many levels...His career goes back to the early 70s,he was the original "Scratcher", the first to use the turntable as an instrument (It makes me wince in sympathy for the records and the stylus, but that's a whole 'nother topicWink) and 1982's "The Message" was and,IMO,remains one of the genuine landmarks of the genre, Grandmaster Flash's webpage is a revelation for those unfamiliar with this pioneer.
(MrsS can't type, and so must clean up later)
This message has been edited. Last edited by: MrsS, 12-02-06 10:30 PM
12-02-06, 09:12 PM jusork Oh yeah, okay you convinced me there. I didn't realize he started it actually. I thought it was one of the DJs from Jamaica.
12-02-06, 10:37 PM DorianGreyed "We researched and listened and agonized until we had a list of the greatest and most influential records ever - and then everyone complained because there was no Pink Floyd on it."
I think that some of us are concentrating on the "greatest" part of the list, while others are on the "most influential" wording. "Greatest" is more a personal taste issue, while "most influential" is more objective. I know that my posts in here reflected the "most influential" aspect. I think the compilers of the list should have gone one way or another. Obviously, I think that they should have just used most influential as the criteria. That is something that can be discussed, and an unbiased person can acknowledge that some album that he does not like can still be influential. Including "greatest" means that an individual's list would include only those albums that are to his taste. (There are those that would have Slim Whitman's albums filling out most of the 100. In my opinion, the only good point about his singing is that it will protect us from Martians when they attack.)
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