OK I thought we need more questions here so here goes. My 9 year old son is so mean at times to his 3 year old brother. At other times he plays nicely with him. It is worse when he goes over to grandmas, which he does a lot. I don't know if he just thinks grandmas is his thing and that is why he gets so jealous. We have tried ignoring his behavior, punishing him but nothing seems to work. Any suggestions. ********************************************************* 06-28-02, 12:30 AM gizmogram I'm afraid that I don't have too many ideas since I had girls 9 years apart and had very few sibling rivalry issues!
I know that boy siblings have real issues from other parents that I've known, though.
I think the older one just HAS to show the younger that HE'S the boss and always will be, you know?
Something I did even with the age difference in my girls...
Once the younger one was old enough to understand, I would take a day a week with JUST HER AND ME - so she could understand that SHE was just as important to me as her older sister was!
It did wonders!
I hope that other "multiple boys" people come forward with suggestions also! Good luck! Giz ********************************************************* 06-28-02, 10:02 PM Beth000376 Hi Nursey I have two boys one is twelve and the other is six so I know where your coming from! I often have the same problem with my twelve year old picking on his younger brother I think a lot of it is the need to be the boss of his younger brother and I'm sure there is a little jealousey happening there too.For the most part I deal with this by letting my older son have time away from his brother and I try to spend more one on one time with him that usally helps. I am also good with guilt trip talks wink I tell my older son how his younger brother looks up to him and how when they are older he is going to be his best friend. Most times that works well for me, don't get me wrong they still fight most day's but I have lessen the fighting from ten fights a day to two fights a day!! Good Luck!! smile ********************************************************* 06-30-02, 12:44 PM nursey63 Thanks for your advice.
Beth-- I have been trying to psych my 9 year old out, telling him how the younger one looks up to him and thinks of him as hero and wants to be like him. It helps for a little and then we are right back where we were. He seems better some days. But especially if we go to grandmas he gets worse. Oh the trials of being a parent! ********************************************************* 07-09-02, 08:13 PM Vicki Can they go to Grandma's at different times? That way they can have grandma all to themselves for that time..... ********************************************************* 07-10-02, 12:09 AM nursey63 Grandma babysits for me when I work. So they are usually their together. The older one does spend the night more often by himself. ********************************************************* 08-05-03, 01:06 PM Sherasi nursey, did this situation ever resolve for you?? ********************************************************* 08-05-03, 01:48 PM DvdGStwrt I know nobody is going to like what I say here, but, being a 'boy' I know it better than some would think.
Males are, just because they are male, Pack oriented mentalities.
What does that mean? In any group of males there will be the 'Alpha Male' the leader, the decision maker, the 'ruler' if you will. The rest of the males (depending on the size of the group) will fall into a pecking order.
In adult males this process is usually civilized and may be 'hidden' under societies facade of what civilized means. In children, not yet trained in the civilized way to form packs, their behavior is more pronounced, taking on 'violent' ways of showing 'domination' and 'submission'.
Adult males are naturally prone to the 'Lead, Protect, provide' mentality. The Protect and Provide are secondary and tertiary to the 'Lead' aspects. Clearly defining who is in charge is the 'first order of business'. In animals the 'protect and provide' is rarer than in humans, only because animals are unable to conceptualize the 'needs' of others. They can lead, however the leader always gets the "lion's Share" which is always the biggest and best portions.
Humans are able to conceptualize that there is needs in others. We are 'taught' the importance of others more than we are born with that concept. Males are taught that their roll in the nuclear family is 'Leader, Provider and Protector'. The last two are taught to us in various ways as children; such as military toys, and that 'daddy' works while mommy stays home and 'plays house'.
In this case it is clearly the 'rightful place' of the elder boy to be the 'alpha male' and the younger one to be the submissive 'beta' male. This doesn't mean that I believe that a 9-year old is a natural leader due to age, it only reflects the position of the elder (thus more knowledgeable and larger and stronger) see's himself as being one step above his younger brother.
Being acutely aware of his 'superiority' over the 3 year old (having mastered speech, being taller, being stronger, etc) the 9 year old will naturally desire to be the alpha male in that sibling relationship.
Don't think that the 9 year old is not painfully aware of his real position in the Family 'pack' he is well aware that he is not the leader of the pack, that Mom and Dad are above him in the pecking order.
At Grandma's house there is a new order, where Grandma may not be the same leader as in the home. Thus he may feel more confident in showing his position of dominance over the younger sibling.
Females, as has been demonstrated here, are not naturally part of the 'pack mentality' theirs is more of a cooperative where the importance of leadership takes second place to the importance of cooperation. Females naturally understand that cooperation is better and that leadership is a helpful tool in maintaining that cooperation.
The way females relate to one another reflects this cooperative mentality, and also shows how females place importance on other aspects of life than males.
This isn't to suggest that females do not have their monarchy, they do, but they tend to express this in more 'lady-like' terms.
This is in part due to the way our society frames the gender rolls into two neat packages. Boys are supposed to follow certain 'dominating' characteristics, while females are supposed to be 'happy' following the leader.
Even the toys we give our children enforce the gender roles and makes it clear to them what their place really is. Males are suppose to be 'strong' leaders, Females are suppose to be nurturing, et cetera.
I would suggest a more positive role of Grandma in putting her foot down and making it clear that she is the 'Alpha Male'. Stronger Leadership by grandma may make it clear to the 9-year old that the same 'rules' of dominion still apply, at home and at grandma's house where he is still at the same 'level' within the pack.
I would also suggest that the 'Alpha Male' at home should take time and teach the 9-year old the responsibilities of being a 'leader of the pack'. This is to say that being more dominate also means that you just don't decide what the submissive one does, but that the more dominate you are, the more you are responsible for the health and happiness of the submissive.
Big Brothers are naturally inclined to be the 'protector and provider' for sisters due to gender. The classic image of the big brother standing up for the rights of the 'weaker' sister is called to mind here.
Big brothers of little brothers are faced with the problems of seeing another male (who being male is a threat of status) and sees the younger male as being able to provide and protect himself. Thus it is far easier to be on the offensive in dealing with the 'natural order of things' and harder to be gentler, kinder and a provider/protector.
Again, I know what I said may come off as demeaning, if it does I'm sorry. I tried to reduce this to the barest bones and I by no means am suggesting that humans are animals. We are, however, guided by behaviors which are seen and clearly demonstrated by animals without the confusion of various emotions intermingled with them.
Further I am not suggesting that Females are 'weak' or less than Males. If there are any other conflicts which I brought to the table, this is not my intent, my intent is to demonstrate in the most general of terms the dynamics and drives taking place.
David ********************************************************* 11-23-03, 10:07 PM Cyndiluwho_99 David, you never cease to amaze me with your posts. As the mother of 2 sons, I have to say, you've hit the nail on the head, again. My sons are 5 years apart, and used to fight terribly. I found the best thing to do, was leave them alone and let them work it out, intervening only to prevent bloodshed. They are now 18 and 23 and are very good friends. They even choose to hang out together. I couldn't be more proud of the men they have become. Nursery, I hope things have gotten better for your boys as time as passed. ********************************************************* 11-23-03, 10:20 PM jusork I don't know, David's explaination seems too cookie-cutter. I know I've seen plenty of groups(most I'd say) where there are no "leaders", it's just a mish-mash of people. I can't really say I see any that many patterns in how people act (except maybe that they act on how they feel). And my younger brother was the one who looked after ME. I had no problems with that, I am very passive, he is not. Brothers and sisters will disagree sometimes. I think it's as simple as that.
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