Since we were discussing hardwood floors in another thread, I have a question.
I want to build a house one day. I want to have dogs/puppies and kids. I DON'T want to have carpet clean-ups with puppy and kids messes and accidents.
I DO love the look of hardwood floors.
I have had hardwood floors in homes that I have rented for about 4-5 years and I have liked them for fast easy clean-ups of messes such as listed above.
BUT, I have heard discussion from people who own their homes who complained about how hard it is to keep the floors nice and had to be so careful, etc.
Would I be better served in getting a sort of man-made flooring that LOOKS like hardwood? I know that urine and other liquid messes can get into grooves etc. Even man-made planking would have this sort of risk.
I don't want linoleum in my whole house! Is tile an alternative? Or would that also get ruined?
Help! ************************************************************************ 09-21-05, 11:16 AM aminator2002 Real hardwood 3/4" solid flooring is the best. The floor finish will get wear but it should look good always, just not as smooth and perfect as when you first do it. The nicest part is that you can give them a quick face lift by recoating with polyurethane and eventually sanding for much less than replacing completely.
I do not think the laminate flooring systems or any of the prefinished systems compare to good old sanded in place solid wood flooring.
If your pets are not potty trained then I do recommend using tile in the areas of most frequent accidents. Any type of wood will eventually hold the urine smell including laminate flooring systems.
09-21-05, 11:18 AM DorianGreyed You can either coat the floors with polyurethane or keep them waxed. Waxing looks a little better, but must be done frequently. Polyurethane protect the floor much better and lasts much longer, but costs more. After the polyurethane is applied, you need to let it cure for at least a week before walking on it. Unless you can have that done while you are on vacation, it is a real problem for most people. In your situation, you should look into engineered flooring products. Quality engineered, or manufactured, wood floors should last 20 years or more with minimal maintenance.
09-21-05, 01:47 PM aminator2002 I don't mean to be argumentative but I do disagree with some of the comments above.
You do not have to wait a week to walk on a polyurethane floor. It will not achieve it's hardest quality for 7 days but that in no way means you can't walk on it. You can't put down rugs for at least 7 days and some people recommend a full month. I didn't look through the links posted but it certainly isn't industry standard to wait a week to walk on a freshly finished floor.
IMHO, from seeing a lot of people deal with waxed floors, it is not the way to go. It is hard to maintain and frankly it can be quite slippery in places. I've fallen on my behind a few times on freshly waxed wood floors. With your children it would be disasterous to have such a hazard.
My experience with Engineered flooring systems is that they are not what the manufacturers make them out to be. I know many people are very happy with them, but I find it very aggravating that if there is a problem that a section of flooring has to be taken out rather than just sanded or spot repaired. I hate dealing with these floors, but nonetheless the price makes it such that in the home that I'm currently building, we are putting in these floors.
09-21-05, 04:14 PM DorianGreyed I should have said put anything on it, rather than walk on it, although walking on it may cause minute scratches. Polyurethane dries slowly, and, of course, from the top, which means that the top may be hard enough to walk on, but underneath the top layer, it is still fluid to some extent. Putting furniture down before it is cured will probably cause the underlying polyurethane to 'flow' away from the contact points because of the weight, thus making the layer of protection thinner at that point. The 'flow' is very slow, as with any extremely thick liquid, but it happens. Another thing to remember is that polyurethane cures at different rates, depending on both the temperature and humidity. Walking on an uncured floor can easily cause minute sctatches, which may not be visible until seen at an angle in certain light. But, like any blemish or flaw, once you see it, you will always see it, even if no one else can.
09-21-05, 07:35 PM Sherasi I appreciate your input, both of you. Smile
I've always loved the look and durability of the hardwood floors I've been exposed to.
As for use after preparation, I plan on making this flooring in the part of a home that I build, so actually using it won't happen for quite a while probably until the whole home is ready for occupancy.
I am not building for a few years, but I figured getting my research done early and thoroughly will make create me a home that will be durable and enjoyable. Smile
09-23-05, 12:08 AM Di Hi Sherasi We built our home over 20 years ago and had carpet installed in all but the kitchen. I installed linoleum tiles in the kitchen. I'd always wanted wood floors but had to go the most inexpensive route at the time. Two months ago we pulled up the dining room carpet and installed laminate flooring in place of it as well as in the kitchen. We picked an antique oak for both rooms and it is absolutely beautiful. My husband was questioning just how durable this stuff actually is to did some 'testing'. 1. Soaked a piece in water for 48 hours, 2. Sandpapered the finish, and 3. took a hammer to it! I can honestly report there was no damage. And, we didn't have to remove the kitchen's linoleum before installing. We purchesed the BHK Snap-it brand and I'll swear by it. Easy to install and a beautiful, lasting finish.
Diane
09-23-05, 12:25 PM DvdGStwrt Older hardwood floors suck because the finish is usually an older finish (especially in rentals) or is done with a cheaper product than the newer surface treatments on the market today which are slightly more expensive but worth every penny. Waxing gives you a quick finish, but easily wears away and has to be redone on a regular basis – most older houses, rentals are still subjected to waxing. The downside to older floors is once waxed it is “easier” to just keep waxing instead of stripping, sanding and resealing with a poly coat or two. Since the “down time” is a week or two for a Poly, most rentals can not afford the lost time waiting for the poly to cure properly before letting renters in.
Poly coats are constantly being improved, are getting added years of good looks and more durability.
Manmade - or laminates - are still prone to issues, granted today's pergo flooring is much more durable than 10 years ago, but there is still room for improvement. Mind, I’m Old School Wood Carpenter, I don’t like MDF, OSB, Laminates – I prefer the look and feel of real wood so I dis the manmade products readily – with the exception of construction members like Laminate Beams which are slightly greater with the loads and I have seen the tests done enough for Wood against Laminates to be sold on the durability and strength of laminate structural members.
I would assume with the past record of improvements that even if the trend on the improvement of the product slows or lessens over the next decade 10 years from now Laminate Flooring will most likely be an excellent alternative to real hard wood flooring.
However the feel and sound of laminate will not match that warmth and depth of sound of hardwood flooring. Even new hard wood grown today chiefly in tree farms is genetically bred for faster growth thus the individual grain lines are wider, and there is a different “feel” to the wood over hard wood grown 50+ years ago. Not the same. One alternative I have seen used readily is the re-harvesting of old flooring from older houses, even old school gymnasiums.
I would use Hardwood Flooring in bed rooms, living room, dinning room, hallway, study, etc. I would use a nice ceramic or stone tile in Bathroom(s), Kitchen, Mud room (back porch entry) and main entry. Stone has made a come back and more, along with improved quarry methods the price of stone has come down.
There is a downside to hard floorings when it comes to children, if they fall the surface is hard and they feel it more than Carpets/rugs.
When it comes to Hardwood flooring the Victorians would use a lot of throw rugs and area rugs to “soften” the floor, protect in high traffic areas and add warmth and reduce echoing in rooms. Today there are many inexpensive throw rugs on the market made out of artificial materials like Oliene (spelling) which is a plastic (petroleum) based product that looks and feels like wool/cotton with the added protection of scotch guard is durable and cheap enough to toss should a puppy have a terrible accident that goes beyond the protection of Scotch Guard. Not a good solution for wall to wall, but an excellent solution for high traffic areas. We went through rugs like most people go through socks, but then we had two large dogs, two cats and live in a rural area where mud, sand and dust are tracked in all the time.
Further, there are “pads” for rugs which are water proof, that means anything spilt on the surface and soaks through does not reach the flooring beneath, being rubberized these pads also prevent the rug from slipping on hard surfaces.
Today’s vinyl floorings (tiles and sheets) are superior to the products of yester-year, There are more choices available when it comes to design and color. The old “school room” lino, the one with the spots has made a come back, it is still thick but made with better “safer” materials, extremely durable, comes in more colors than ever before and even “textures” which makes it a wonderful alternative to vinyl.
If you are considering a slab for any part of the house (I am actually considering a “sunken living room” which will be on a slab with other areas of the house above ground, the crawl space being sealed up with concrete “floor” then used as a plenum to pump heat under the floors of the rest of the house) Today’s method of surfacing concrete gives you the opportunity to have it textured to look like stone, slate, etc and the new methods of staining or coloring the concrete makes it a good alternative for flooring in the house, its durable and easy to seal. In conjunction with radiant floor heating a concrete floor is no longer something regulated to basements and garages.
09-23-05, 01:19 PM Sherasi Wow, I have alot to think about!
BTW, word to David about the concrete.... there is a MJOR and I do mean MAJOR correlation between heated floors and kee/leg/ankle and longer-term health issues.
Many many many person I work with getting knee and hip replacements.sthought you'd know. so, sunken livingroo.t a ood idea of the mobility impaired... i.e. the elderly or post-surgery patients with joint replacement.
09-23-05, 06:57 PM DvdGStwrt That's interesting, one would assume a warm floor radiating heat upward would be good for the feet and legs.
I know that the system(s) I've been looking at (using geothermal heat pumps then adding heat/cooling to the stable undergournd temperatures) is highly energy efficent. That is what made it attractive to me.
09-23-05, 08:41 PM Sherasi Sorry about the typos... wireless laptop. Eek
Yes, the heated floors where I work for the State predisposes persons to trouble with their legs and joints.
09-23-05, 09:10 PM Tree We put floating hardwood flooring in our home this year. It's much better than laminate, as there's enough wood to sand and repair the floor if there is any damage. It's expensive, but worth it, in the long run.
I LOVE IT! Smile
09-23-05, 09:22 PM DorianGreyed Sher, are the problems just with concrete floors, or heated ones?
09-23-05, 11:01 PM aminator2002 Concrete floors are very hard on the joints. I worked on a home that had a concrete slab with hardwood over it and even at the age of 27, I'd go home with aching feet and knees. I can't imagine that it's the heat that has anything to do with it but generally heated floor systems are laid into a concrete sublayer. There are systems that get laid between sleepers below a wood floor. It's a good system of heating although if you are the type that likes to jack up the heat at certain times of day then it's not for you. The time it takes to heat up the air can take awhile.
09-24-05, 08:53 AM Sherasi I think that the fact it is concrete is the first problem.. and the heated floors are the second problem compounding the first. The reason the floors are heated is that this facility was originally made for children who were retarded and disabled. The children were placed on the floors with mats and various surfaces to protect them, but Hypothermia was a major issue. So the planners made the floors heated. They take a while heating up, and take even longer to cool down (at least it feels that way when the weather outside is 85 degrees all of a sudden and the floors make the internal temperatures top 100 degrees).
I'd speak to an orthopedic physician before comitting to heated floors (I imagine they are rather expensive to lay down).
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