Do you believe in an afterlife because you really believe its inherent in our lives, or do you believe it because you were promised it by God, or both? If you found out that there were no afterlife, how would you be affected?
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11-16-06, 08:44 PM
juanruiz
While this obviously isn't directed toward me, I really have never understood the attraction of an afterlife. Why isn't this life enough for people? Is death such a terror that the invention of an eternal existence is necessary?

11-16-06, 08:56 PM
Sherasi
As for current society, I don't know, but I would imagine that originally, ancient peoples had such daily terror in life with seemingly random events (natural disasters, deaths of children and family for no apparent reason, and innumerable other reasons) they NEEDED to put some structure on it to keep sane. Hence the development of Gods. Well, I guess when you imagine Gods being SOMEWHERE but not where you are currently (as they are no visible).. that naturally leads to WHERE are they.. and it HAS to be a whole lot better than HERE!

Medieval Ages.. I would think that there was such prevalent misery, the only thing to look FORWARD to was Death to get to the "Good Stuff".

I have no idea about how I feel about an afterlife, truly. But life isn't so bad if you are able to focus on the good moments.

11-16-06, 09:06 PM
Sarai
I don't think it is the idea of death that scares people, Juan. I think it is the idea of meaninglessness. People want to think that there is a reason for living. You will argue that it is possible to find one without any spiritual beliefs, but I think this is something dealing with our basic personalities, not logic. In other words, logically I might agree with you, but my basic personality just isn't like yours. In the end, it bothers me, even if I understand in theory why you might argue that it shouldn't. For some people, it is enough to find purpose in your day to day life, depite the knowledge that one day you will die and whether you were Gandhi or Hitler, a few thousand years in the future it won't have made a speck of difference. For others like me, that idea is deeply disturbing and even depressing. Personally, I need to believe there is some deeper purpose here.

To answer your question, Jusork, I don't believe in an afterlife, exactly. I believe that nothing is permanent and yet there is an almost eternal chain of cause and effect. I also don't believe in God.

So I can't answer your question, exactly, but I can say that if I were to learn unequivically that there is no greater meaning or mystery in life beyond being born and then living this bittersweet thing called life and then dying, I think I'd be okay for a while (I lived with that belief for over a decade and did okay), but eventually, I think it might make me sick.

11-16-06, 10:55 PM
juanruiz
I don't know what to say to you, Sarai. Maybe it all has to do with where each person finds himself. I don't believe life is meaningless. I don't believe it is bittersweet. I find joy in every day of existence. Of course, I have a good career, and I'm happy in what I'm doing. I have always thought that people view death as intolerable, because they do not believe that is all that is meant for them. That as thinking, rational, loving beings, there has to be something beyond. That they deserve an afterlife, even if it means worshipping a god that they cannot prove exists. Way back on Jeeves, I commented that viewing my mother's body in her coffin, a lifeless shell, was evidence enough that there was no such afterlife. She had had her existence, married, raised children, and now had reached her end. And while I feel her absence every day, the only way she lives still is through my and other's memories of her. When we all die, she dies for the last time. As when all who knew me die, I die for the last time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: juanruiz, 11-17-06 08:37 AM

11-17-06, 09:14 AM
Sarai
Juan, I think what you say makes sense and you have a wonderful outlook on life. But as I said, there is a difference between logic and emotion, and while I understand what you're saying, deep down, I can't share your view of the world, although I like it. I really think that it must come down to personality type.

11-17-06, 11:57 AM
juanruiz

quote:
I really think that it must come down to personality type.

Could be a number of factors. I think the most important would be children being told from the time they understand that there is an afterlife.

11-17-06, 01:34 PM
Professor

quote:
Originally posted by juanruiz:
I really have never understood the attraction of an afterlife. Why isn't this life enough for people? Is death such a terror that the invention of an eternal existence is necessary?

Well, you know I have no supernatural beliefs or expectation of an afterlife, but yes -- it bothers me very much to contemplate the end of my existence! If there were an immortality serum, you could sign me right up.

To quote from Woody Allen's monologue at the start of Annie Hall, life is "full of loneliness and misery and suffering and unhappiness, and it's all over much too quickly."

I'd at least like to live to see everyone driving those flying cars, but I have no delusions about the Cubs ever winning the pennant. Smile

11-17-06, 02:03 PM
juanruiz

quote:
it bothers me very much to contemplate the end of my existence!

To whom doesn't it bother? We all contemplate our mortality, and wish we could go on. I think that is natural; part of our makeup. But that is very different from inventing a scenario of eternal life. As I've said befire: we are all biota, no different from the road kill on the interstate. the bird that slams into a window, or the mosquito we slap. The difference is we realize that.

11-18-06, 07:28 AM
bik74

quote:
Originally posted by jusork:
Do you believe in an afterlife because you really believe its inherent in our lives, or do you believe it because you were promised it by God, or both? If you found out that there were no afterlife, how would you be affected?

I remember saying soething about this before.
I believe of after life becasue God says it so (no proof here).

If there was no after life, would not affect me personally a lot. May party a little.... but overall would be very depressed.

A person say for example in remote part of africa or india or Pakistan.., lives his/her entire life in poverty and agony gets not even a single moment of joy.... a crippled person... you get the picture. That person will never get justice, is he/she suppose to believe thats it for them.
Similary people who commit genocides, wars based on lies, honour killings, rape etc.... mostly get away with it. They will never account for what they have done? Very very depressing.

11-18-06, 09:28 AM
frankvan
" --- We all contemplate our mortality, and wish we could go on. I think that is natural; part of our makeup. But that is very different from inventing a scenario of eternal life -----: we are all biota, no different from the road kill on the interstate. the bird that slams into a window, or the mosquito we slap. The difference is we realize that."

Well, at least some of us realize it, and live accordingly. As to 'wishing we could go on' I can readily imagine circumstances in which 'going on' seems somewhat less desirable.

At my age, 84, I want to go on as long as I can in order to see my great grandchildren graduate from elementary school, (even high school ?) but only so long as my wife remains alive. I believe with Omar Khayam that, "The flower that once has bloomed for ever dies". But the end of life can seem like a welcome rest rather than unacceptable injustice. Even for bik74's hypothetical people who never obtain justice in this world. Can't 'mere oblivion' be an end to injustice, as well as an end to evildoing? Neither we who continue to cling to life, nor the fellow who dies, can know whether he got what he deserved or not - so what more does justice require?

11-20-06, 04:32 AM
tsaeb
People who have personal relationships with God are already in heaven, heaven being this relationship. So those physically alive and already in heaven chuckle at the prospect of the rest of the race having such a personal relationship with God for the first time after their physical deaths. You all will realize right quickly that it is heaven which you will be experiencing . . . as spirits. David expressed his opinion of this eventuality by saying that he would laugh when your calamity comes. I am already laughing. Big Grin

11-20-06, 12:05 PM
Denis

quote:
Originally posted by jusork:
Do you believe in an afterlife because you really believe its inherent in our lives, or do you believe it because you were promised it by God, or both? If you found out that there were no afterlife, how would you be affected?


I believe it because I have faith in God.

11-21-06, 11:40 AM
VelvetVoice
Bik-I could have written your post. Very much the way I feel.

Tsaeb-I will not be laughing on that day, unless the people I have been praying for all miraculously were changed to believers. I have a feeling I'll be very sad on Judgement Day. Although God promises to wipe away every tear, I wonder how I'll feel.

Actually, if I had a potion of immortality in THIS life, I'd pass on it. Ever see Death Becomes Her? The bodies get old, and they fall apart and get decrepid.

Star Trek has an episode about a man who has been living since the dawn of time, and he finally built an android for his companion because he could not stand the pain of love and loss in every relationship. In the end, she dies because her love is awakened and she cannot decide between this man and Kirk.

Twilight Zone has several episodes of people living forever, and the afterlife. Personally, I can't wait to get there and find out what my real gifts are, I plan to ask for more musical ability. Does anyone have an idea of what they will ask God for when you get to the Throne?

11-21-06, 12:00 PM
newnickname

quote:
In the end, she dies because her love is awakened and she cannot decide between this man and Kirk.

Ah, they don't make 'em like that anymore. Smile

Kurt Vonnegut's Galapagos has another take on the problems of immortality. The narrator, a ghost, hangs around earth long enough to see humans evolve into something completely different.

11-21-06, 01:07 PM
juanruiz

quote:
Twilight Zone has several episodes of people living forever, and the afterlife.


As I've commented before, one of my favorites is where hell consists of having to watch slides of the next-door neighbors' vacation for eternity.

11-21-06, 08:19 PM
Julieta Martinez
Independently of the other posts on this thread, I really do think there is an afterlife. I don´t know why there is an afterlife, but what I do know is God has promised it to us. And I´m sticking by that. I don´t think I´d ever be surprised to know that there isn´t an afterlife, because in the case that there isn´t. I´ll be dead and I won´t know either way, will I? Big Grin

11-22-06, 05:13 AM
tsaeb
VelvetVoice: I think that I made the "mistake" of asking God to use me as a vessel, and that is how I got the gifts which I got . . . after I made the right decision in my life's greatest battle. I am surprised that you do not know that judgment day has been going on all along.

11-22-06, 05:15 AM
tsaeb

quote:
Originally posted by juanruiz:

quote:
Twilight Zone has several episodes of people living forever, and the afterlife.

As I've commented before, one of my favorites is where hell consists of having to watch slides of the next-door neighbors' vacation for eternity.


juanruiz: The thought of some participants here being sentenced to read my prophecy book(s) for a few years of study has me ROFL. What a candidate you would make! Big Grin

P.S. Happy Holiday! Roll Eyes

11-22-06, 07:39 AM
juanruiz
Your books for me would run a distant second to "I Love Lucy" reruns. Happy Turkey Day to you!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,