Should the study of religion be made compulsory, given some of the positives of the endeavor in this article: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2141485.cms?
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10-11-06, 08:13 AM
Elexina
I don't think religion should ever be compulsory, in the education realm or otherwise. Some aspects of tolerance and education could reasonably be worked into Freshman Experience courses, and fuller electives concerning religion could certainly be developed, but never force-fed. I would think twice about sending my child to a school where religious courses were mandated.

10-11-06, 08:47 AM
juanruiz
This would mark a change in the General Ed requirements at Harvard. Other courses are also included. I'd have my misgivings, if it weren't for the fact the course is about religions, not an attempt push religion. Jeeze, after all, this is Harvard we're talking about; not exactly a hotbed of fundamentalist revival.

10-11-06, 10:49 AM
DorianGreyed
I think that an objective look at the major religions of the world seems to be an obvious requirement of any college for its graduates. It is my opinion that most Americans need a better understanding of not only America but the rest of the world. I took such a course about a dozen years ago, and learned a great deal. We had speakers from various religions (mostly Christian sects, but other religions were represented), and after each spoke, there was a Q & A period. Many of the students were well-versed in the Bible, and had some very pointed questions. Not all the speakers left happy, and one was so disturbed by penetrating questions that he left at the break rather than finish his scheduled time. (No, I wasn't one of the ones who quizzed him so hard, but I did point out once that he completely avoided answering a question he was asked.) I felt sorry for the two Mormon young men. Their lack of knowledge of the Bible (compared to many in the class) was very obvious.

10-11-06, 10:54 AM
juanruiz

quote:
I felt sorry for the two Mormon young men. Their lack of knowledge of the Bible (compared to many in the class) was very obvious.



The downside of naming 19 year-old kids "elders" and making them "priests." A four-week orientation session at BYU is hardly the seminary.

10-11-06, 11:16 AM
VelvetVoice
Not that I don't want to learn about other religions, but I think this is a mistake. Not only do many not know how to read and write, or remember basic math, how can we be sure that favoritism towards one religion or no religions will eventually show up? And who decides what is taught? I don't want any old Christian telling a class what I believe.

LOL, I can picture Victoria in such a class, they'd never get anywhere because she would constantly be spouting off "that's not true", "here's what the Bible says", or writing and speaking at length about subjects the smartest of teachers will be unable to refute. It would be a total riot! They will be sure to take it off the list then.

10-11-06, 11:43 AM
DorianGreyed
How do you know a philosophy teacher won't teach a philosophy that you disagree with? Will black instructors teach the "Kill Whitey" mind-set? Will German instructors promote Nazi principles? (I certainly admit that proponents of Creationism and Intelligent Design give me pause in writing this, since several instructors that accept those beliefs actually have done exactly that.)

There are certain facts associated with any religion, and the adherents of those religions do not own those facts. If a religion or sect cannot stand up under a spotlight, is it the fault of the light or the religion?

10-11-06, 12:11 PM
VelvetVoice

quote:
Originally posted by DorianGreyed:
How do you know a philosophy teacher won't teach a philosophy that you disagree with? Will black instructors teach the "Kill Whitey" mind-set? Will German instructors promote Nazi principles? (I certainly admit that proponents of Creationism and Intelligent Design give me pause in writing this, since several instructors that accept those beliefs actually have done exactly that.)

There are certain facts associated with any religion, and the adherents of those religions do not own those facts. If a religion or sect cannot stand up under a spotlight, is it the fault of the light or the religion?



DG: I would say that a philosophy class is an exercise in differing points of view. A class like this is meant to spark disagreement, or to help people verbalize their thoughts on ethics or any subject for that matter. Religious belief is supposedly based on facts in either the Bible, the Koran, or sacred texts such as the Talmud or doctrines like the Catholic Cathechism or whatever. No college student is likely to be well-versed in one of these documents, let alone all of them.

What is to be gained by such a class then? Lessons in diversity and tolerance would probably be more suitable for this type of student population.

Also, how many of you in the Pool are familiar with these documents? So many of you opine on what I believe without ever reading the Bible or understanding its message. I am reading the Quran in an effort to understand what they think. It is total hypocrisy to rail against and complain about something you have no understanding of.

And to sum up: religious belief or lack thereof starts in a home where such behavior and application is learned in every minor detail of living. We observe and learn by example. Morality cannot be taught or legislated. It must be witnessed and imitated.

10-11-06, 01:15 PM
DorianGreyed
"No college student is likely to be well-versed in one of these documents, let alone all of them."

What is college for if not to teach that which students do not know?

"What is to be gained by such a class then? Lessons in diversity and tolerance would probably be more suitable for this type of student population."

I think you need to understand things before you can really accept them. What better way to understand something than to be taught by someone trained in that discipline? "It is total hypocrisy to rail against and complain about something you have no understanding of."

VV, this isn't Podunk State. It's Harvard. Harvard graduates should be well-rounded and have a knowledge of the world around them. If they don't, if it is not required of the graduates of one of Ametrica's finest universties, what, then is required of graduates of Podunk State or Backwater U?

10-11-06, 01:28 PM
VelvetVoice
"Uh, I dunno."

LOL, DG. I agree there. But there are so many out there who know so little, it scares me that these kids will one day be running my government. I have a comic strip from last year entitled "Seven Things Scarier Than BOO on Halloween". One said "I will be choosing your nursing home when you are old." YIKES!

10-11-06, 01:50 PM
juanruiz
As I said above, the course is about religions, not championing a specific one. There are some facts which do not enter into the realm of faith:

the devlopment of rabbinical Judaism
Paul's theology
the five pillars of Islam
the way of the Buddha
etc.

Courses which inculcate belief are best found at a place like Liberty University or Oral Roberts.

As for Victoria, I hope she has all her facts right when challenging a professor, and is not just speaking from what she remembers her pastor saying.

10-11-06, 02:06 PM
VelvetVoice
Well, me too. That's why I'm always answering questions, making sure she understands what she is talking about. We do have one kid in church, no more than seven or eight, and I wonder how much she understands what she is saying. She has the same Jewish teacher she had two years ago, and I have to remind her to think about what she says. We may be a loud and obnoxious family, but we are not bigots or closed-minded. All of her skills have improved, including comprehension and abstract thinking.

I'll really give her the business though if she doesn't think. She gets a lot of homework this year, andI hate to check her math homework. Simple math seems to elude her. I can't understand why it was so easy for me, and yet so difficult for her. She is exactly like me in most ways, the exception being her big feet. She has a gigantic teenage attitude, and she is only 11!!!

10-11-06, 02:14 PM
VelvetVoice
I guess I should take this as a learning experience. You of all people know how much I like arguing with someone who actually knows what they are talking about. My great weakness.

10-11-06, 02:19 PM
juanruiz

quote:
the exception being her big feet. She has a gigantic teenage attitude, and she is only 11!!!



Have to admit I misread this the first time; I thought you were saying her feet were 11s.

10-11-06, 02:20 PM
juanruiz

quote:
You of all people know how much I like arguing with someone who actually knows what they are talking about.



Which doesn't explain why you argue with me. Wink

P.S. Congrats on the move up to gold.

10-11-06, 02:28 PM
VelvetVoice
Why, thanks ever so, JR. You're the first who noticed. When am I going to get that diamond you promised?

10-11-06, 02:44 PM
juanruiz

quote:
When am I going to get that diamond you promised?



Was hoping you'd have settled for an amethyst. Wink

10-11-06, 07:22 PM
FredPuli
What happens in American schools where there are children of several religions? Do you not encourage the children or their parents or the teachers to explain the different festivals and the different practices and beliefs of each of their religions?It would be surprising if, for example, the Christian children did not ask about Diwali or Passover, since children are naturally curious. Or is such curiosity discouraged in your secular system ?

10-12-06, 05:09 AM
tsaeb
How in the world does one take an objective look at the major religions of the world (now that we learned that lil V has big feet)?

10-12-06, 06:43 AM
juanruiz
You study it dispassionately as you would study any other subject: its history, development, influences from other religions, central theological doctrines, major figures (both real and legendary), etc. A good example is found in Huston Smith's The World's Religions.

10-12-06, 07:28 AM
Elexina
Compulsory Religion Course

quote:
Originally posted by FredPuli:
What happens in American schools where there are children of several religions?

When I was in school not so long ago I seem to remember not discussing it all that much. The majority of the children were Christian, so none of us really questioned making paper Easter eggs or decorating a tree or making turkeys out of outlines of our hands. There was one kid (a JW, I think) who always sat for the pledge and left the room during birthdays and other celebrations. He seemed to revel in the attention he got for this. But for the most part, we just had little secular celebrations. It didn't occur to anyone to protest or complain.
Once in high school, the little parties stopped but we learned about the religions through history classes as they intersected with other lessons, and in art history class as well. Broad overviews, not courses specifically geared toward religion.
The only thing I ever remember being offended by was the "under god" in the pledge. -But that's a whole other topic, to be sure.

I think religion can and should be studied. I think people should have an understanding of the worlds' major (and some minor) religions and faith paths. I think high schools can provide an objective historical introduction, and then colleges can create courses to delve into them more deeply. But I do not think such courses should be mandatory -even at Harvard.

If my child went to a college where such courses were offered, I would encourage him/her to take these courses. I would have taken them! But I would balk if s/he were forced to take them as part of the core.

It is good to learn about religion, but never good to force it down someone's throat.

10-12-06, 02:12 PM
Tulula
I did take quite a few religion classes in college -- not so long ago -- and my purpose was to learn about other religions. Based on the fact that I was raised and baptized Southern Baptist,this studying of other religons views (especially eastern religions) may have been seen as a great sin -- however, I have never felt that the Southern Baptist doctorine was the only TRUE belief system. I do believe in Jesus so I knew I was a Christian, but basic religious concepts from other view could not hurt as far as I was concerned. I especially enjoyed learning about Taoism and Buddism, but I am still a Southern Baptist -- I have only developed a little broader worldview than some. I kind of noticed a lot of similarities in regards to basic humanity functions within each religion. I also took alot of philosophy classes and sociology classes and during that time also traveled quite a bit throughout Europe, I have not noticed that my basic values have changed that much, but I do feel I have developed a greater level of tolerance and love for people in general.

10-12-06, 07:08 PM
FredPuli
Where we have an admixture of religions in British schools we get different festivals. The children are not only learn about other religions but will take part,even if only peripherally, in festivals. I mentioned Diwali because that is one in which I know the Christian children in primary (junior) school enjoy getting involved . It's natural for children to be interested (and is often an excuse to dress up and dance too Smile ). The TV stations always have items in their childrens' programmes at the time which explain the festivals and what the people believe too.

Do you have nativity plays in state schools in the US ?The children re-enact the Christmas story , performing it to an audience of the parents. Perhaps that is not allowed in the States because it celebrates one religion but here they are universal and the result may be that we get a mixed- religion cast of players in many schools Big Grin

[Hey, perhaps you think we don't take religion seriuosly enough? Smile )

10-12-06, 07:20 PM
juanruiz

quote:
Do you have nativity plays in state schools in the US ?



Not in the public schools to my knowledge. In regard to religious holidays, much depends on where you live. The New York City schools run well into June because they have so many religious holidays.

10-13-06, 08:20 AM
Elexina

quote:
Originally posted by juanruiz:

quote:
Do you have nativity plays in state schools in the US ?


Not in the public schools to my knowledge.

Not to my knowledge, either.
In college one year we had a winter celebration where representatives from a bunch of different faiths spoke about their winter-time celebrations. I went to speak about the pagan Yule celebration. There was dancing and feasting and it was very interesting and educational -because all of the religions and faiths that wanted to be were represented -and only people who wanted to learn about it attended.
I just can't see a similar assembly or lecture or class getting the same kind of reception in high school.

quote:
[Hey, perhaps you think we don't take religion seriuosly enough?

Maybe we should take a lesson or two from you all! Big Grin

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,