Hi- Here's a challenge:

Can anyone name a piece which contains (within at most four/ five bars apart from each other) an example of a septuplet and nonuplet within the same part(i.e. same instrumental part). The piece should ideally be written by a composer who died more than 70 years ago.

MANY THANKS!, Rachel

I really wish I could help you on this, but am unable to do so. Others here though, I am sure, have the musical nous to do so and will manifest themselves soon. Sorry rac, and good luck!

Well!!!
I have just an hour ago seen this request and have searched through my scores of Bartók, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Brahms, Prokofiev, Old Uncle Tom Cobley & all, and the best I can do so far is this:
Chopin's Nocturne op 32 no 2 has what you need on the last two pages, but not five bars apart. Bars 72 & 73 have quintuplets and one nonuplet, but you have to go back to bar 54 for a septuplet. (Incidentally, 'septimole' & 'quintole' are synonyms for the afore-mentioned terms). I was certain that the Haydn Variations in F minor would have yielded exactly what you needed, as I know that they contain many septimoles/septuplets...but no! I am going to look at more orthodox areas now, such as slow movements from Mozart & Beethoven, as they must give us what you need...
Watch this space!((((( ))))

The Chopin Polonaise in Bb op 71 no 2 has most of the odd groups of notes which you could wish for, between bars 10 & 19... I have all of these scores, Rachel, so if you wish to see them, let me know.

quote:

Others here though, I am sure, have the musical nous to do so and will manifest themselves soon.

See? Told you so Rachel!
Very well done Ritz - and fine work!

Cheers, Colin! Actually Rac & I are old friends, and I shall continue to trawl through my stuff to see what I can find. However, this being New Year's Eve, Mrs Ritzmar want to go into Manchester to see what happens in Albert Square. This curtails my forays into things musicological for a while.

At least there won't be any fountains, like Trafalgar Square in London, for her to push me into, should the urge come upon her...

OK!
Ravel, 'Gaspard de la Nuit'. 'Ondine' (the water-sprite) contains everything you could want in the way of note groupings. I had in mind the third and last piece of the trilogy, 'Scarbo', but I needed to look no further than the first one.

Incidentally, as a student 40 years ago I shared a room with Alan Wilson for twelve months. He is a very fine pianist & harpsichord player, as well as a first class organist and composer. He decided to learn 'Ondine', and I recollect that he sat at the piano after breakfast around 8.00 am one day and, aside from the odd break for a sandwich, sat there until tea at 6.00 pm. By then he had worked out, and written into the score, his choice of fingering for the whole piece. Now could begin the business of starting to practise the piece, which he did the following day.

All in the preparation, you see. I calculate that he did nine hours of continuous work of studying & marking the score before starting to practise the work. Within a week he was giving a very good rendition of it (Gaspard is fiendishly difficult to play well). We lost touch when I left London, but remember him as a good friend and a fine musician, with great pleasure.

PS Here is Alan without the beard, and much more as I remember him. Click on his name for the photo.

Hi,

Thank you sooooooooooooo much Ritzmar. That is so helpful and you may not realise the hassle you have saved me!(Sorry for the slow reply, I have had computer problems-again, and not been in Manchester or checked emails over Christmas hol's). The book is nearly fiinished (I am just tidying up some drawings) but have temporary problems with 'virtual' memory on computer. Anyway, will keep you informed.

Thanks again! Rac

Rachel, you are most welcome (((xxx)))
As you know, Ravel died in 1937, over 70 years ago (I did double-check that) so I am sure that that condition is met...just!)
PS I will buy a copy if you would be so kind as to sign it for me!

Sure, I can sign a copy for you when passing by. The end is in sight now... Phew!!
Rac

Ah! But for all the input I have given you (see here!) I would like a dedication, or at least a mention...

Ritzmar- I'm afraid I can't use Ravel's 'Ondine' as an example since, although it contains sextuplets and septuplets, it does not contain the important nonuplet which I need. Also it needs to be only in one part, and not spread between two hands. Sorry if this seems fussy. i will keep looking in Chopin's work... Thanks anyway. Rac