Hello fellow enthusiasts ! I am building a .243 cal. model 788 for my son he is 9 yrs., old can you suggest a resonably priced scope that has good eye relief and lighting ? Also a good load to start him on ? He has been using a .223 cal until now however it was loaned to him by his Uncle and it is just too heavy to hunt with ! +++++++++++++ 06-03-02, 11:46 PM ez I would strongly recommend a Leupold scope in a 2.5 to 8 or 3.5 to 10 power. You can not get a better scope. The more expensive scopes will not be any better. OH BOY I OPENED A CAN OF WORMS NOW! Scopes like Zeiss and Swarovski that have very high price tags are good scopes, but you are paying for the high labor cost to build them. Buy a scope that does not have an adjustable objective lens. They are hard to use in a close hunting situation. OK here goes a nother can of worms! Bushnell has the highest warranty rate than any other scope manufacture. That is they brake the most. If your are considering a cheaper scope than a Leupold, try a Simmons. The Simmons have very good lenses and good warranty record. I have two Simmons and on my 243 I have a 6.5 to 20 power for varmint hunting. The Simmons Aetec in a 2.8 to 10 would be a good choice. It has a 4 inch eye relief! Which one you choose get the scope mounted as low as you can for proper eye alignment and gun to cheek fit! Then have fun!
09-30-02, 01:03 PM Rontate Bob... EZ's answer offers a lot of good information. I'm familiar with EZ from the ASK JEEVES Answer Point. However, let me add my experience and suggestions to what he said.
I own & use 4 Bushnell scopes on various rifles and I find the Bushnell scopes and their service excellent.
I've had occasion to go to their website and to talk to their representatives on their 800 phone number. Their represntatives try to be very helpful and do as much as they can for you.
I had the need & occasion to change the "Bullet Drop Compensator Range Disk" in the 3-9x variable Bushnell scope on my Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage caliber that has a Bullet Drop Compensator built into the scope. The rifle/scope's former owner had installed the wrong "Range Disk".
Bushnell's parts personnel were extremely helpful and sent out the needed part immediately along with an invoice for the part I wanted. Their pricing was very reasonable and you don't have to pay "up-front", which is refreshing.
Note that the scope was NOT "broken", I merely needed to change the "Range Disk" from the one which was in the scope (for a 130 grain, .270 Winchester round) to a "Range Disk" appropriate for the 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet in the .300 Savage cartridge for my Model 99 Savage.
As concerns your son's rifle scope, a lot depends on for what purpose the boy is going to use the rifle. A .243 Winchester cartridge is a decent long deer rifle for Texas deer if loaded with 100 grain or heavier bullets as well as a good varmint cartridge if loaded with 80 grain or lighter bullets.
I disagree with EZ concerning having the parallax adjustment on the objective (front) lens of a scope. This adjustment is extremely handy for eliminating parallax (mis-alignment of the crosshairs) in the scope at ranges of less than 150 yards.
Since most of us sight-in our rifles at 100 yards, we can eliminate the parallax which is ALWAYS present in any scope at that range... thus making our scope settings more accurate at ALL RANGES. And... if you wish, the parallax adjustment allows you to accurately adjust your scope or shoot accurately at shorter ranges, like 25 or 50 yards as well.
If your son is going to do a "mixture" of big game/varmint hunting... I.E. deer/javalina/coyotes/marmot/etc. hunting, I'd suggest a variable scope with an adjustable front lens (parallax adjusting ring) of 4x-12x or, if it is available a 4x-16x... and I wouldn't be a bit afraid to buy a Bushnell scope.
I've never had any "trouble" with any of my bushnell scopes.
Good hunting... 10-01-02, 11:33 AM Rontate Most scopes have parallax in them at ranges of less than 150 yards. Parallax causes the crosshairs to shift position slightly on the target as you move your head left or right... or up and down. This "shifting" can cause the shooter to miss the point-of-aim due to a mis-alignment of the crosshairs.
If you have a scope with a "parallax adjustment ring" on the front (objective lens) turret, you can eliminate this mis-alignment by adjusting the parallax out of your scope. Here is an easy way to set your scope up so it can be parallax-free.
1) Set up a target at 100 yards. Set the parallax adjustment ring on the FRONT (objective lens) turret to the "100" (yard) setting. 2) Screw the scope's FOCUS adjustment on the scope's REAR turret (ocular lens) "in" or "out" until the target is very clear and in sharp focus. Then "lock" the locking ring against the focus adjustment and NEVER TOUCH THE FOCUS ADJUSTMENT AGAIN. 3) Thereafter, if any target seems "fuzzy" or out of focus, adjust the PARALLAX ADJUSTMENT RING on the FRONT TURRET, not the "focus" adjustment, until the target is clear and sharply in focus. 4) You will note that once you adjust for parallax, you can read a "range" to the target off of the "setting" of parallax adjustment ring. This "range" should closely correspond to the actual range to your target.
You can also be confident the sight-picture of your target is parallax-free and, therefore, accurate. This is especially important & useful for target ranges under 150 yards.
10-11-02, 03:49 PM Rontate Bob... I realize you posted your question in June and this is October, but if you see this, check out page 48 in the October issue of Guns & Ammo Magazine.
There is an article about REDUCED LOADS for the .243 Winchester.. "Loading The .243 Lite". This looks like a perfect answer for your son's needs. The loads shown have about the same recoil as the .223 your son has been shooting.
I think the listing of the amount of powder used is a bit confusing. The amount of powder used in each load is listed under "CASE LOAD". The chart shows the brand of cartridge case used first, then the amount of powder in grains is indicated behind the brand of the cartridge case... a WEIRD way to list a "load", but that's how they did it.
If you are thinking about deer hunting (as opposed to varmint hunting), Nosler makes their fine Partition Bullet which would be great for deer as light as 85 grains. They also have a 95 grain and a 100 grain Partition hunting bullet as well.
As you probably know, the heavier the bullet or the larger the powder charge, the greater the sensed recoil.
Keep in mind that the LIGHTER the rifle, the GREATER the sensed-recoil... so don't make that rifle too light or it will "kick" like a mule.
Before you let the boy shoot any loads from the .243, shoot the load yourself to feel its recoil. The boy is ONLY 9 years old and probably not very big, so he'll be a lot more "sensitive" to the recoil than someone older and heavier would be.
You don't want the rifle/load to "hurt" him and cause him to start "flinching" or turn him off of shooting and hunting.
10-15-02, 10:01 PM DoctorBob Thanks Rontate for your reply! And yes my son has been shooting a 223/87gr. until now ! However he is a big kid and loves to shoot ! We decided to put a Bushnell on his gun and so far he has been shooting fairly good groups and he says he can see very well with this scope !Also I have beeen looking at putting a new scope on my 308/180gr.and have been interested in the Leatherwood ! Do you have any input on this subject? Thanks again , DoctorBob
10-17-02, 10:19 AM Rontate Hmmmmmmm... Bob... never heard of a "Leatherwood" scope, so I can't help you there. Sorry...
10-17-02, 11:21 AM Rontate A 3-9x variable scope like the Bushnell scope on your son's rifle is plenty of "scope" to take full advantage of the exterior ballistics of a cartridge like the .308 Winchester under normal hunting conditions. It hasn't been many years ago that a 4x fixed power scope was deemed to be "the" perfect scope for deer hunting.
However, I'd recommend the 150 grain bullet in the .308 Winchester for deer. Personally, I use the 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet for deer in my .300 Savage which I handload to slightly less velocity than a factory-loaded .308 Winchester cartridge. The 150 grain bullets are generally designed to open up faster than a 180 grain bullets.
I'd recommend the 180 grain bullets for elk or moose because they are usually designed with heavier jackets that help them penetrate deeper into the vital areas of the larger animals before they "mushroom" open.
An additional advantage of the 150 grain bullet in your .308 is that it will have a higher muzzle velocity than the 180 grain bullet and, thus, be somewhat "flatter" shooting out to 300 yards.
In my opinion, the .308 Winchester/150 grain bullet combination is a good 250-300 yard deer cartridge or a decent 150 yard (maximum) elk or moose cartridge if using a 180 grain bullet.
Yes, I realize you could hit them at a greater range, but the killing power of the .308 must be taken into consideration where large, heavy-boned, heavily-muscled animals like elk, moose or big black bears are concerned.
While some hunters might use your rifle on grizzly, Alaskan Brown (aka "Kodiak") or polar bears, I would recommend a larger caliber rifle like the .338 Winchester magnum for the "big bears". Again... yes, the "big bears" have been successfully bagged using smaller calibers (including the lowly .22 caliber rimfire), but why spend all that money and take a rifle of a caliber which is questionable?
Most of the guides in Alaska carry .338 Win. mags or .375 H&H mags... there's a REASON for doing so. I can personally attest to the capabilities of the .338 Winchester magnum on large moose. I made a single shot kill at approx. 110 yards on a very large (estimated at 1500 lbs. by our guide) moose on a "fly-in" trip back into the bush. The 210 grain Nosler Partition Bullet penetrated the heavily muscled neck, shattered one of the vertebrae, then turned and went down the neck and stopped just under the skin on the off side shoulder. The moose, with a rack over 5-foot wide, dropped as if hit by the hammer of Thor.
I found, extracted and still have the well-mushroomed 210 grain Nosler bullet. Its remaining bullet weight was/is 148 grains... excellent bullet performance from a well-designed bullet.
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