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quote: Of course, this last poll was taken well before the Surge made Iraq so much safer.
Exactly. IRAQ'S RE-LIBERATION HOW GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS CHANGED THE COUNTRY'S RULES August 22, 2007 -- GEN Ralph Peters In a session with The Post yesterday, Petraeus stressed that he wasn't going to offer any premature declarations of victory. Far from it. Despite meaningful and measurable progress since he assumed command earlier this year, Iraq remains a brutally difficult place. But it's a better place than it was a year ago, with violence reduced by half in Baghdad. Long the deadly base of al Qaeda in Iraq, Anbar province has gone from hundreds of daily attempted attacks on our troops to four earlier this week. Iraqis assume ever more responsibility for their own security. And former enemies are rallying to fight beside us, instead of against us. How did the general and the troops under his command achieve such rapid progress? He lays out a model: "The Re-Liberation of Iraq," this time from a new wave of oppressors, the terrorists, insurgents and militias. Petraeus recognizes that there's no one-size-fits-all solution for a country as complex as Iraq, but a series of common emphases have been working well thus far: The general's recognition that locally recruited security forces have the immediate trust of the local population has been critical to the entire effort. Even with the surge, we lacked the forces to do it all ourselves. Petraeus recognized that, yes, all politics is local - and so is security. So he pushed hard for reconciliation programs to engage former enemies who now want to work with us to drive out al Qaeda. http://www.nypost.com/seven/08222007/postopinion/opedco...qs_re_liberation.htm |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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quote: NNN, I told you yesterday that most Marines on the ground tell me just the opposite of what you are saying...
Did you? You certainly didn't supply any quotes. Have you found a letter yet you can show us? Have any soldiers on the ground been moved enough by the success of the surge to write to the papers? You guys are still just quoting journalists and politicians. If you do actually talk to soldiers on the ground, I'm sure we all want to hear what those people are saying. Stop posting gung-ho journalists' ideas and tell us what the soldiers are actually saying. quote: Certainly not! Success throughout the whole Country
Nonsense. Take a look at teh articles Charles himself has posted. They describe some successes - isolated - and some setbacks, in a broader context of no political progress. Success in Basra? Here's Jack Keane on what's happening there: 'Keane said security in Basra "has been gradually deteriorating, with almost gangland warfare and the lack of ability of the police to control that level of violence — so the situation is gradually getting worse." www.iht.comBut, hey,what would he know? He's just a retired US general. |
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quote: Did you? You certainly didn't supply any quotes. Have you found a letter yet you can show us? Have any soldiers on the ground been moved enough by the success of the surge to write to the papers?
Oh yes! I am sure that they are lining up right now to write their letters to some unknown liberal on line.  quote: Nonsense.
Nonsense, you say? BS. quote: But, hey,what would he know? He's just a retired US general.
Hey, does Gen Petraeus know what's going on? What would he know he's just the Commander over there. |
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| Posts: 3165 | Location: From the Mountains to the Sea. | Registered: 06-08-02 | |
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| Posts: 16633 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02 | |
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quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed:
bush has even screwed things up so badly that he can't use Nixon's "Peace with Honor", since there won't be any peace in Iraq until long after we leave.
Hasn't the President been telling veterans today that the US was wrong to leave Vietnam when she did? Not sure who he is blaming. Must be the American people, I suppose. Or is he blaming any President who listened to the American people when the war was so unpopular? Anyhow, on the President's version, not only should you have stayed but your withdrawal caused, inter alia, Pol Pot's rule in Cambodia and the deaths of millions of innocents.So now you know. Next time you invade a country you should stay the course, even though that might mean occupying it for decades  (Heck, we British held India for nigh on two hundred years) |
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| Posts: 7664 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02 | |
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Well, I think that leaves about 3 Democrats that are still fighting for pulling the troops out. Bush Cites Vietnam Against Iraq Pullout AP Posted: 2007-08-22 18:31:22 But House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio said more Democrats are "bucking their party leaders" in acknowledging progress in Iraq. "Many rank-and-file Democrats have seen this progress firsthand and are now acknowledging the successes of a strategy they've repeatedly opposed," Boehner said in a statement. "But Democratic leaders, deeply invested in losing the war, would rather move the goalposts and claim that a precipitous withdrawal is the right approach despite the overwhelming evidence of significant progress." http://news.aol.com/story/ar/_a/bush-cites-vietnam-agai...id=NWS00010000000001 |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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'This is the third Terrorism Index they have issued. Among its findings are that foreign-policy experts "see a world that is growing more dangerous, a national security strategy in disrepair, and a war in Iraq that is alarmingly off course," according to the magazine.
"The main reason for this pessimism appears to be events on the ground," says Mike Boyer, senior editor of Foreign Policy. "Eighty-three percent of the experts say the surge of troops into Baghdad is having a negative impact on the war effort, an increase of 22 percent from just six months ago." The sentiment crosses party lines, he says. So, too, does a desire to disengage from Iraq. Seven out of 10 experts surveyed believe it's time to draw down forces there, although a majority do not favor an immediate withdrawal.' www.csmonitor.com The article doesn't go into who the experts are, exactly, but maybe they have more authority than a New York Post journalist, for example. So, soldiers on the ground say the surge isn't working - on the whole - and so do experts. Even many of the sources that Charles and Scotty cite point out how mixed results are. Of course Petraeus says it's working - he has to. I'm still amazed that Scotty and Charles would champion Hillary Clinton's views above those of soldiers on the ground. Scotty implied that he's spoken to soldiers serving in Iraq; why can't he share what they're saying instead of predictable hot air from political and journalistic hacks?
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quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed:
I note that Boehner didn't bother to name those Democrats, and I suspect that your math is as flawed as your logic, Charles. There are at least 218 Democrats in the House. What three are the ones that are still fighting for a pull-out?
By the way, I noticed that the poll inside the article asked the following question:
"How much confidence do you have that the U.S. mission in Iraq will succeed?"
The response?
None......59%
A lot.....23%
A little..19%
Does 59% mean many, or is it most Americans have no confidence in bush's ability to win the war he started with a second-rate country? (Of course, most realize that it is difficult to win a war in which you recruit for the enemy and you supply them with weapons. Having 82% of the citizens of that country wanting you out really doesn't help, either. Whatever happened to the flowers they were going to throw at us?)
Yelp, the only three left are Kerry, Reid, and Pelosi. As for the flowers, guess you were out of town that day without a TV. They gave us flowers in the begining and are still doing it. http://www.technochitlins.com/mt-archives/sheppard.jpghttp://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/Flower.jpghttp://www.defendamerica.mil/images/photos/jul2003/index/ii072503r.jpg |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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quote: Originally posted by newnickname: 'This is the third Terrorism Index they have issued. Among its findings are that foreign-policy experts "see a world that is growing more dangerous, a national security strategy in disrepair, and a war in Iraq that is alarmingly off course," according to the magazine.
"The main reason for this pessimism appears to be events on the ground," says Mike Boyer, senior editor of Foreign Policy. "Eighty-three percent of the experts say the surge of troops into Baghdad is having a negative impact on the war effort, an increase of 22 percent from just six months ago." The sentiment crosses party lines, he says. So, too, does a desire to disengage from Iraq. Seven out of 10 experts surveyed believe it's time to draw down forces there, although a majority do not favor an immediate withdrawal.' www.csmonitor.com The article doesn't go into who the experts are, exactly, but maybe they have more authority than a New York Post journalist, for example. So, soldiers on the ground say the surge isn't working - on the whole - and so do experts. Even many of the sources that Charles and Scotty cite point out how mixed results are. Of course Petraeus says it's working - he has to. I'm still amazed that Scotty and Charles would champion Hillary Clinton's views above those of soldiers on the ground. Scotty implied that he's spoken to soldiers serving in Iraq; why can't he share what they're saying instead of predictable hot air from political and journalistic hacks?
Pete and Repete. I keep seeing the same miss statement. |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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quote: I keep seeing the same miss statement.
What is it? Point it out, and I'll see if I can correct it. Can you maybe find us some actual soldiers saying the surge is, on the whole, working? So far, you've posted way more comments from second-rate political and media hacks than from soldiers. I think, so far, you've posted only a couple of quotes from actual soldiers - and even they were hardly ringing endorsements of the surge as a whole: 'We’re not fighting a war here anymore, not in this area...Scotty says there's "success throughout the whole Country", but what are you guys basing that on? From what we've seen in this thread, not the views of soldiers on the ground. Apparently, their views are "trumped" by a journalist passing through. What Petraeus says right now doesn't count - he may know it's all going horribly wrong, but his position at the moment obliges him to put a brave face on things. What are the soldiers saying? Despite violence drop, officers see bleak future for Iraq |
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quote: Originally posted by newnickname: quote: I keep seeing the same miss statement.
What is it? Point it out, and I'll see if I can correct it. Can you maybe find us some actual soldiers saying the surge is, on the whole, working? So far, you've posted way more comments from second-rate political and media hacks than from soldiers. I think, so far, you've posted only a couple of quotes from actual soldiers - and even they were hardly ringing endorsements of the surge as a whole: 'We’re not fighting a war here anymore, not in this area...Scotty says there's "success throughout the whole Country", but what are you guys basing that on? From what we've seen in this thread, not the views of soldiers on the ground. Apparently, their views are "trumped" by a journalist passing through. What Petraeus says right now doesn't count - he may know it's all going horribly wrong, but his position at the moment obliges him to put a brave face on things. What are the soldiers saying? Despite violence drop, officers see bleak future for Iraq
LMAO, only a Lib would say that about the guy running the War. |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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You think the "guy running the war" should be able to speak his mind freely about its progress, while it's still in progress? I doubt it. Surely you have to agree that Petraeus' position puts constraints on how frank he can be.
You didn't answer my question - what misstatement?
And you still haven't come up with an example of a soldier on the ground saying that the surge is working, on the whole. It'd be interesting to hear more from the horse's mouth, rather than from people with political axes to grind. Don't you or Scotty know any soldiers?
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quote: Originally posted by newnickname:
You think the "guy running the war" should be able to speak his mind freely about its progress, while it's still in progress? I doubt it. Surely you have to agree that Petraeus' position puts constraints on how frank he can be.
And you know this how? quote: You didn't answer my question - what misstatement?
You keep harping about these 7 soldiers, and I have posted tons of news from other soldiers and and and and and and posted an article from soldiers from the same unit which say the surge is working. You then turn around and say "you still haven't come up with an example of a soldier on the ground saying that the surge is working, on the whole." I have come up with several, 10 times more then you one article by 7 soldiers. My article are from all over Iraq, when your article is from the same unit. quote: And you still haven't come up with an example of a soldier on the ground saying that the surge is working, on the whole. It'd be interesting to hear more from the horse's mouth, rather than from people with political axes to grind. Don't you or Scotty know any soldiers?
You need to start reading, or should I just keep posting? Is that what you want? |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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Charles, you have posted the words of politicians, journalists and Iraqis. You've posted links to articles about soldiers. You've posted only two quotes actually from soldiers and even they were hardly ringing endorsements of the surge as a whole:
'We’re not fighting a war here anymore, not in this area...'
Don't you actually know any soldiers? I'd much rather hear what kinds of thing they are saying than clips from right-wing blogs and so on that I could google for myself.
And does it matter how I know that the man in charge isn't free to speak his mind, while the events he's in charge of are in (somewhat shaky) progress? Isn't the point rather that, yes, actually, Petraeus is constrained in what he can say right now?
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That's it?
I wasn't wondering so much about what they thought of me, but what they had to say about "the surge". What do they say about it?
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