quote:

Officially, we will not deal with those who have American blood on their hands," said Balcavage, 42.

quote:

But, hey, what would Balcavage know?

That means what?

It's irony, Scotty. I was suggesting you'd dismiss Balcavage's point (that it's impossible to tell whether or not he's arming former enemies) in the same way that you dismiss those other seven soldiers' points. After all, his views could be seen to be in conflict with your new buddy Clinton's idea that the surge is making progress.

quote:

Originally posted by Scotty:

quote:

Officially, we will not deal with those who have American blood on their hands," said Balcavage, 42.

quote:

But, hey, what would Balcavage know?

That means what?

Like another site I am on, every time I post news of us winning in Iraq, people come out of the woodwork that haven't posted for years just to attempt to prove how we are really losing in Iraq. Liberals just hate any good news having to do with Iraq.

Charles, the only new person, the only person to come out of the woodwork in this thread is you. Everyone else is a regular poster and has been for years. The person in this thread who posts least in the political area is Dwight, who having voted for bush twice, is hardly a Liberal. (But I have hope for him, since we still have 16 more months of bush's fumbling foreign policy.) You really should read more before you post, or run the risk of looking foolish again.

quote:

Liberals just hate any good news having to do with Iraq.

What good news? Clinton says the surge is working, and a German weekly puts a positive spin on developments in Anbar?

Guys, renaming Sunni insurgents 'concerned citizens' then getting the heck out of Dodge isn't victory, except in the land of political spin.

Seriously, I thought you guys were supposed to be old soldiers, yet it seems you'd rather listen to journalists or Democrat politicians saying things are going well, than pay proper attention to comments from regular soldiers on the ground.

That Spiegel article is worth reading in full by the way. Its title maybe gives a clue why - "Hope and Despair in Divided Iraq".

A different snippet:

'The Iraq of today is not a single place that is easy to understand -- it is a country mired in contradictions.

In some parts of the country, especially Baghdad, the situation is even worse than was feared, and in others, it is much better than anyone could have hoped. Traveling through Iraq, four years, four months and a few days after the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom on March 20, 2003, one encounters a country undergoing radical change, not just a country in decline, not just a country falling apart, but also not a country that has been saved.

The situation is so complicated that even the leaders of Operation Iraqi Freedom are sometimes at a loss for words and can do little more than shrug their shoulders..."

Or how about...

'...there is little talk of these developments outside of Iraq. The world continues to debate the Bush administration's lies, which hang over the entire operation like a curse, concealing its successes. The lies are legend, and they continue to color the picture the world paints of Iraq.

Old Lies Breed Skepticism

No one can forget how the hawks twisted the truth to engineer reasons to go to war -- the made-up stories of Saddam Hussein as a mastermind behind the Sept. 11 attacks and the trumped-up reports about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. President George W. Bush himself repeatedly told his people and the rest of world horrible fairy tales, painting the most glaring of disaster scenarios, talking ad nauseam about unmanned Iraqi drones that, in his imagination, posed a threat to the US.

The lies didn't stop there, not even after the invasion...

...After building so many houses of cards and castles in the sky, it should come as little surprise to the Bush administration now that, even as successes gradually begin to materialize, most take the good news with a grain of salt...'

quote:

Originally posted by newnickname:

quote:

Liberals just hate any good news having to do with Iraq.

What good news? Clinton says the surge is working, and a German weekly puts a positive spin on developments in Anbar?

Guys, renaming Sunni insurgents 'concerned citizens' then getting the heck out of Dodge isn't victory, except in the land of political spin.

Seriously, I thought you guys were supposed to be old soldiers, yet it seems you'd rather listen to journalists or Democrat politicians saying things are going well, than pay proper attention to comments from regular soldiers on the ground.

More good news for ya.

August 13, 2007
Surging Politics
by Victor Davis Hanson
Tribune Media Services

Do anti-war politicians frequently proclaim our defeat in Iraq — or instead worry that the war might be won? In the spring, Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., announced Iraq was lost, the surge a failure and Gen. Petraeus not "in touch." We haven't seen Sen. Reid much lately.

But we have heard from the House's majority whip, Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C. He's worried that Gen. Petraeus' good news about the surge might be "a real problem for us" — "us" being anti-war Democrats. And at a congressional briefing, when Gen. Jack Keane reviewed the positive signs from the surge, Rep. Nancy Boyda, D-Kan., walked out on the testimony. She complained that there was "only so much that you could take . . . after so much of the frustration of having to listen to what we listened to."

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson081307.html

Gosh, Charles. Your posting quotes from Democrat politicians, while saying nothing about regular soldiers' views, certainly makes me look silly for accusing you of paying more attention to Democrat politicians than regular soldiers.

quote:

Originally posted by newnickname:
Gosh, Charles. Your posting quotes from Democrat politicians, while saying nothing about regular soldiers' views, certainly makes me look silly for accusing you of paying more attention to Democrat politicians than regular soldiers.

Below is good news from soldiers in Iraq.

August 10, 2007
BAGHDAD BABYLON
Hope and Despair in Divided Iraq
By Ullrich Fichtner in Iraq

An Irritating Contraction

Ramadi is an irritating contradiction of almost everything the world thinks it knows about Iraq -- it is proof that the US military is more successful than the world wants to believe. Ramadi demonstrates that large parts of Iraq -- not just Anbar Province, but also many other rural areas along the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers -- are essentially pacified today. This is news the world doesn't hear: Ramadi, long a hotbed of unrest, a city that once formed the southwestern tip of the notorious "Sunni Triangle," is now telling a different story, a story of Americans who came here as liberators, became hated occupiers and are now the protectors of Iraqi reconstruction.

The Americans run into acquaintances in the crowd. After being stationed in the city for 10 months, they have become a familiar sight. Bearded men greet the soldiers with hugs and kisses, and passersby hand them cold cans of lemonade. "Thank you, Mister," "Hello, Mister," "How are you, Mister?" they say. They talk about paint for schools and soccer jerseys, and they invite the Americans over for lunch. The Iraqis pose for photos with them, making "V's" for "victory" with their fingers.

Dinner arrives and it's a true feast, with a spread of kebabs and large pieces of roast chicken, salad and rice with coriander leaves. Chudeir serves sumptuous meals whenever the Americans come to visit, not only because he is a good host, but also because he is grateful to his American friends. Thanks to the American engineers, he says, the city has up to 10 hours of electricity a day now. "We have never had this in all of Ramadi's history. In the end, we will live like civilized people."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,499154,00.html

Um, yes - that's the same Spiegel article I just posted a link to, saying it was worth a read in full. Glad to see you're paying attention.

Strangely, given the point we were discussing, although the full article does contain several quotes from regular US soldiers, the extract you posted doesn't have any. In fact, the particular snippet you chose isn't "good news from soldiers in Iraq" but good news from a journalist and some Iraqis in Iraq, in which US soldiers and engineers are mentioned.

Maybe you should try again - you'll probably have to read the whole thing, though. Remember, in this particular sidetrack, you're trying to show us that you pay attention to comments from regular soldiers on the ground.

quote:

Originally posted by newnickname:
Um, yes - that's the same Spiegel article I just posted a link to, saying it was worth a read in full. Glad to see you're paying attention.

Strangely, given the point we were discussing, although the full article does contain several quotes from regular US soldiers, the extract you posted doesn't have any. In fact, the particular snippet you chose isn't "good news from soldiers in Iraq" but good news from a journalist and some Iraqis in Iraq, in which US soldiers and engineers are mentioned.

Maybe you should try again - you'll probably have to read the whole thing, though. Remember, in this particular sidetrack, you're trying to show us that you pay attention to comments from regular soldiers on the ground.

LMAO, keep fighting the good news.

OK, since Charles refuses to address questions to him, I'll answer Frank's question. The Surge is working to some extent, but only in Baghdad. Somehow, those stupid insurgents figured out that if we pulled troops from other areas and put them in Baghdad, we'd be short in other areas, and they went there. Who could have known they'd do that?

quote:

Originally posted by DorianGreyed:
OK, since Charles refuses to address questions to him, I'll answer Frank's question. The Surge is working to some extent, but only in Baghdad. Somehow, those stupid insurgents figured out that if we pulled troops from other areas and put them in Baghdad, we'd be short in other areas, and they went there. Who could have known they'd do that?

Below are a few excerpts from soldiers/reporter in the 82nd Airborne Division.

July 24, 2007
In the Wake of the Surge
By Michael J. Totten

BAGHDAD – 82nd Airborne’s Lieutenant William H. Lord from Foxborough, Massachusetts, prepared his company for a dismounted foot patrol in the Graya’at neighborhood of Northern Baghdad’s predominantly Sunni Arab district of Adhamiyah.

I donned my helmet and vest, hopped into the backseat of a Humvee, and headed into the streets of the city with two dozen of the first infantry soldiers deployed to Iraq for the surge. The 82nd Airborne Division is famous for being ready to roll within 24 hours of call up, so they were sent first.

The surge started with these guys. Its progress here is therefore more measurable than it is anywhere else.

This was all purely defensive. The battalion I’m embedded with here in Baghdad hasn’t suffered a single casualty – not even one soldier wounded – since they arrived in the Red Zone in January. The surge in this part of the city could not possibly be going better than it already is. Most of Graya’at’s insurgents and terrorists who haven’t yet fled are either captured, dormant, or dead.

Before the surge started the neighborhood was much more dangerous than it is now.

Lieutenant Lawrence Pitts from Fayetteville, North Carolina, elaborated. “We patrol the streets of this neighborhood 24/7,” he said. “We knock on doors, ask people what they need help with. We really do what we can to help them out. We let them know that we’re here to work with them to make their city safe in the hopes that they’ll give us the intel we need on the bad guys. And it worked.”

Lieutenant Lord: “Most of what we’re doing doesn’t get reported in the media,” he said. “We’re not fighting a war here anymore, not in this area. We’ve moved way beyond that stage. We built a soccer field for the kids, bought all kinds of equipment, bought them school books and even chalk. Soon we’re installing 1,500 solar street lamps so they have light at night and can take some of the load off the power grid. The media only covers the gruesome stuff. We go to the sheiks and say hey man, what kind of projects do you want in this area? They give us a list and we submit the paperwork. When the projects get approved, we give them the money and help them buy stuff.”

quote:

Originally posted by DorianGreyed:
OK, since Charles refuses to address questions to him, I'll answer Frank's question. The Surge is working to some extent, but only in Baghdad. Somehow, those stupid insurgents figured out that if we pulled troops from other areas and put them in Baghdad, we'd be short in other areas, and they went there. Who could have known they'd do that?

You say only in Baghdad? I have listed just a few of the other areas you missed.

The Al Qaim region routinely was described as an out-of-control "wild west" where the Marines were fighting, with only limited success, to control the smuggling of insurgent fighters and weapons from Syria.

Today, Marines walk the downtown beat, chatting with residents, fielding their complaints, encouraging them to contact the Iraqi police if they suspect insurgent activity.

In a country studded with areas where the United States either has failed or had only limited progress toward stabilization, Husaybah and the surrounding Al Qaim region stand out as a success, officials said.

Unfortunately, the American people aren’t hearing about this, as Army medic Corporal Ignacio Garza observes:
Based on his experiences in Iraq, events there are not as bad as the news media make it seem, an Army medic from Adrian said.

Cpl. Ignacio Garza, a medic in the 1st Armored Division home on leave after serving in Iraq for six months, said the troops don’t watch television news for war updates because they think none of the networks show an accurate depiction of what’s happening. He said they ignore large parts of the country, including the Kurd-dominated north, that are stable.

In fact, if the mainstream media isn’t ignoring a story in Iraq they could just as easily be making one up. For the second time in six weeks, the Associated Press has put out a story from Iraq that isn’t backed by the facts:
The Associated Press has again put out an Iraq story detailing events that did not happen. This time, it involves an airstrike that, " killed a family of four during a firefight." However, according to the press desk of Multi-National Forces-Iraq, no air strike happened during that firefight, and MNF-I also reported that which six insurgents were killed by American troops in Baghdad on January 1. This is the second time in roughly six weeks that the AP has been caught fabricating events.

Mosul and al Qaim are other areas where significant progress has been made over the past year. In Mosul, Iraqi police and army forces have brought law and order to a historically violent area:

Ninewa Province

Ramadi

“Hundreds of Iraqi Police are holding areas cleared by Iraqi and American forces in recent operation in the worst neighborhoods of Ramadi,” said Player.

Al Qosh

Anbar Province

Husaybah

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzRhMzI1ODExYWNhYT...Y2UzYWJhMzQwYzFjNjM=

Yes, there have been some isolated successes. I guess, with millions of internal refugees, some areas have been ethnically cleansed and are - like Kurdistan - now relatively peaceful.

However, the surge was not just about military progress. Comments from those seven soldiers posted earlier:

'Yes, we are militarily superior, but our successes are offset by failures elsewhere...

...Reports that a majority of Iraqi Army commanders are now reliable partners can be considered only misleading rhetoric. The truth is that battalion commanders, even if well meaning, have little to no influence over the thousands of obstinate men under them, in an incoherent chain of command, who are really loyal only to their militias.

Similarly, Sunnis, who have been underrepresented in the new Iraqi armed forces, now find themselves forming militias, sometimes with our tacit support. Sunnis recognize that the best guarantee they may have against Shiite militias and the Shiite-dominated government is to form their own armed bands. We arm them to aid in our fight against Al Qaeda.

However, while creating proxies is essential in winning a counterinsurgency, it requires that the proxies are loyal to the center that we claim to support. Armed Sunni tribes have indeed become effective surrogates, but the enduring question is where their loyalties would lie in our absence...

...The ability of, say, American observers to safely walk down the streets of formerly violent towns is not a resounding indicator of security. What matters is the experience of the local citizenry and the future of our counterinsurgency.'

And todays headlines? Bush is more or less threatening to oust the Iraqi leadership, again.

'Mr Bush's comments came after the US ambassador to Baghdad, Ryan Crocker, said political progress in Iraq had been "extremely disappointing".' news.bbc.co.uk

'The purpose of the current US strategy - the so-called "surge" launched in February - is to buy time for the Iraqi government to make political progress. It is a military means to a political end.

But far from making progress, Mr Maliki's government is visibly falling apart. Virtually all of the Sunni ministers have either resigned or are boycotting cabinet meetings.

Its claim to be a government of national unity, never very convincing, is now threadbare.' news.bbc.co.uk

So, if you like, you can rely on the good news quotes and stories about soccer fields and walking down the street without being shot at, or you can consider the bigger picture and probable futures. Iraq is breaking up into (internally, relatively peaceful) Sunni and Shiite areas, plus the de facto new country of Kurdistan.

Anther excerpt from that In the Wake of the Surge article:

'The area of Baghdad just to the south of us, which the locals think of as downtown Adhamiyah, is surrounded by a wall recently built by the Army...

...The area inside the wall is mostly Sunni. The areas outside the wall are mostly Shia. Violence has been drastically reduced on both sides because Sunni militias – including Al Qaeda – are kept in, and Shia militias – including Moqtada al Sadr’s Mahdi Army, are kept out.'

Progress?

quote:

Originally posted by newnickname:
Yes, there have been some isolated successes.

Isolated? Guess you haven't been listening to the news or reading everything I have posted.

quote:

However, the surge was not just about military progress. Comments from those seven soldiers posted earlier:

As for a military solution in Iraq, who, may I ask has ever said the total solution to the Iraq problem is the military. Just why the left keeps bringing this up, I don't know, hell both sides of the argument already know this. The military is only part of the solution, as stated by General Petraeus on 23 January in his confirmation hearing.

“If we are to carry out the Multi-National Force-Iraq mission in accordance with the new strategy, the additional forces that have been directed to move to Iraq will be essential. Greatly increased support by our government's other agencies, additional resources for reconstruction and economic initiatives, and a number of other actions are critical to what must be a broad, comprehensive, multifaceted approach to the challenges in Iraq,” Petraeus said at his confirmation hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday."

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...w&id=9425&Itemid=128

quote:

'Yes, we are militarily superior, but our successes are offset by failures elsewhere...

So you say.

quote:

...Reports that a majority of Iraqi Army commanders are now reliable partners can be considered only misleading rhetoric. The truth is that battalion commanders, even if well meaning, have little to no influence over the thousands of obstinate men under them, in an incoherent chain of command, who are really loyal only to their militias.[QUOTE]

That is your opinion, but the Democrats are sure getting skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerd about the good news coming out of Iraq about the "surge" working.

Democrats Refocus Message on Iraq After Military Gains
Criticism Shifts to Factional Unrest

By Jonathan Weisman and Anne E. Kornblut
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, August 22, 2007; Page A04

Democratic leaders in Congress had planned to use August recess to raise the heat on Republicans to break with President Bush on the Iraq war. Instead, Democrats have been forced to recalibrate their own message in the face of recent positive signs on the security front, increasingly focusing their criticisms on what those military gains have not achieved: reconciliation among Iraq's diverse political factions.

Advisers to both said theirs were political as well as substantive statements, part of a broader Democratic effort to frame Petraeus's report before it is released next month by preemptively acknowledging some military success in the region.

The burst of effort has been striking, if only because Democrats left for their August recess confident that Republicans would be on the defensive by now. Instead, the GOP has gone on the attack. The new privately funded ad campaign, to run in 20 states, features a gut-level appeal from Iraq war veterans and the families of fallen soldiers, pleading: "It's no time to quit. It's no time for politics."

But in an interview yesterday, McNerney made clear his views have shifted since returning from Iraq. He said Democrats should be willing to negotiate with the generals in Iraq over just how much more time they might need.

In the fight for the Democratic presidential nomination, former senator John Edwards issued a scathing attack on Clinton's remark. But he said there has been "progress in Al-Anbar province."

Click on link for full story.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...AR2007082102025.html

[QUOTE]Similarly, Sunnis, who have been underrepresented in the new Iraqi armed forces, now find themselves forming militias, sometimes with our tacit support. Sunnis recognize that the best guarantee they may have against Shiite militias and the Shiite-dominated government is to form their own armed bands. We arm them to aid in our fight against Al Qaeda.

This is old news, and isn't happening anymore. They now in many villiages are working for us and fighting against al-Quada.

quote:

However, while creating proxies is essential in winning a counterinsurgency, it requires that the proxies are loyal to the center that we claim to support. Armed Sunni tribes have indeed become effective surrogates, but the enduring question is where their loyalties would lie in our absence...

When we leave, Iraq will be in charge. That's a what if statement that lends nothing to the argument that the "surge" is working.

quote:

...The ability of, say, American observers to safely walk down the streets of formerly violent towns is not a resounding indicator of security. What matters is the experience of the local citizenry and the future of our counterinsurgency.'

No matter what happens after we leave the left will undoubtily claim we lost.

quote:

And todays headlines? Bush is more or less threatening to oust the Iraqi leadership, again.

'Mr Bush's comments came after the US ambassador to Baghdad, Ryan Crocker, said political progress in Iraq had been "extremely disappointing".' news.bbc.co.uk

Actually, you would be wrong, below is what President Bush said.

"If the government doesn't respond to the demands of the people, they will replace the government - that's up the Iraqis to make that decision, not American politicians," he said.

quote:

[i]'The purpose of the current US strategy - the so-called "surge" launched in February - is to buy time for the Iraqi government to make political progress. It is a military means to a political end.

On June 16, 2007 the last unit "Marine Expeditionary Unit" arrived in Iraq and the same day the first Defensive "Operation Phantom Thunder" began. Prior to that, as the troops arrived, they were just doing what they called "shaping operations waiting for the last unit to arrive.

quote:

But far from making progress, Mr Maliki's government is visibly falling apart. Virtually all of the Sunni ministers have either resigned or are boycotting cabinet meetings.

Although this may be true, my disagreement is with those that same the "surge" of troops isn't working.

quote:

So, if you like, you can rely on the good news quotes and stories about soccer fields and walking down the street without being shot at, or you can consider the bigger picture and probable futures. Iraq is breaking up into (internally, relatively peaceful) Sunni and Shiite areas, plus the de facto new country of Kurdistan.

If you like, you can rely on the bad news that the "surge" isn't working, but I know better. Heck, it is working so well, France is trying their paws in on it.

Reversing Course, France Seeks an Active Role in Iraq

By KATRIN BENNHOLD
Published: August 22, 2007

PARIS, Aug. 21 — After years of shunning involvement in a war it said was wrong, France now believes that it may hold the key to peace in Iraq, proposing itself as an “honest broker” between the Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish factions there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/22/world/europe/22france.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Yes, "isolated" successes. And it's not my opinion that 'a majority of Iraqi Army commanders are now reliable partners can be considered only misleading rhetoric'. It's the opinion of some soldiers on the ground - not the journalists, armchair generals and politicians you're setting so much store by.

The "I strapped on my body armor and set of with the guys of the 82nd to hand out candy.." journalism that you like so much describes isolated successes. Those pockets of relative calm do not add up to a bigger picture of success. They look more like successful ethnic cleansing, and the temporary peace provided by dominance of one local gang or warlord. As your last post itself acknowledges, political progress is key. And there has been none.

Read the articles you are posting a little more closely. They contain within themselves evidence that they - for all their patriotic bluster - are describing isolated successes:

'In a country studded with areas where the United States either has failed or had only limited progress toward stabilization, Husaybah and the surrounding Al Qaim region stand out as a success, officials said.'

'Graya’at’s streets are quiet and safe. It doesn’t look or feel like war zone at all. American soldiers just a few miles away are still engaged in almost daily firefights with insurgents and terrorists, but this part of the city has been cleared by the surge.'

Those quotes are from articles you've posted links to. Even they acknowledge that successes are isolated. Read a little more carefully.

Wednesday, 15 August 2007, 11:48 GMT 12:48 UK

At least 200 people have been killed in a series of bombings apparently aimed at a Kurdish religious minority group in northern Iraq, officials say.

Some 200 more were reported injured as at least four blasts hit areas home to the Yazidi sect near the city of Mosul. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6946028.stm

The final death toll was about 500. The attack was the single deadliest one yet in Iraq.


Monday, 20 August 2007, 19:37 GMT 20:37 UK

The Shia governor of Iraq's southern Muthana province has been killed by a roadside bomb, officials have said.

On 11 August the governor of Diwaniya, Khalil Jalil Hamza, was killed by a roadside bomb along with police chief Maj-Gen Khaled Hassan. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6954467.stm

Wednesday 22nd August, 2007

August is shaping up to be one of the bloodiest months in Iraq, with a a strong resurgence in militant attacks.

Four more U.S soldiers have been killed in Iraq, raising the U.S death toll for the first six days of the month to twenty one as thousands of troops battle militants in intense summer heat. - http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=271619

I suppose this just the death throes again, right, Charles?

Charles, do you think the Yadizi think the Surge is working? How about the families of those two Iraqi governors? Think playing soccer will help them get over the deaths of their loved ones? Maybe we could build them a nice pool? (Of course, without clean water, that might not be such a good idea.)

You mention al Qiam, yet fail to mention that it is mainly the work of tribal leaders there who are fighting the jihadists rather than the results of the Surge that have made the area less dangerous. Why is that?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For those who care about such things, I list the following:

QUALITY OF LIFE INDICATORS

Iraqis Displaced Inside Iraq, by Iraq War, as of May 2007 - 2,135,000

Iraqi Refugees in Syria & Jordan - 1.3 million to 1.75 million

Iraqi Unemployment Rate - 27 to 60%, where curfew not in effect

Consumer Price Inflation in 2006 - 50%

Iraqi Children Suffering from Chronic Malnutrition - 28% in June 2007 (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Percent of professionals who have left Iraq since 2003 - 40%

Iraqi Physicians Before 2003 Invasion - 34,000

Iraqi Physicians Who Have Left Iraq Since 2005 Invasion - 12,000

Iraqi Physicians Murdered Since 2003 Invasion - 2,000

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 1 to 2 hours, per Ryan Crocker, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (Per Los Angeles Times, July 27, 2007)

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 10.9 in May 2007

Average Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 5.6 in May 2007

Pre-War Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 16 to 24

Number of Iraqi Homes Connected to Sewer Systems - 37%

Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies - 70% (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Water Treatment Plants Rehabilitated - 22%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)

Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%

Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%

Iraqis who feel less ecure because of the occupation - 67%

Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course, this last poll was taken well before the Surge made Iraq so much safer. I have to wonder if any Yadizi were included in the 2005 poll, and, if so, how they voted. If they voted pro-US, do you think they may have a different opinion now? (Of course, 500 of them now have no opinion, don't they, Charles? You'd probably count that as not having an anti-US opinion.)