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Commentary from the Beeb : "Anbar province was Saddam Hussein's power base, with a 95% Sunni population.
After the invasion, it became the most dangerous place for US forces outside Baghdad.
Having pictures of the commander-in-chief strolling around an American base there will send a valuable message back home - it is not as dangerous as it was...
...But the Intelligence Estimate also said unless Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki, who is Shia, does more to support these Sunni efforts and bring the tribal leaders into his coalition, their growing strength could undermine his shaky grip on power still further...
...The report [i.e. the one originally Petraeus' responsibility] is expected to be, at best, mixed.
While violence has been curbed in Baghdad and Anbar province, other regions have seen some of the worst bloodshed since the invasion.
And it will be very hard for that report to point to significant advances by the Maliki government, which this troop surge was supposed to enable." How important is this? |
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Commentary - with some figures and an interesting insight into Petraeus - from the NYT : '...so far, every month of 2007 has seen more U.S. military fatalities than the same month in 2006.
What about civilian casualties? The Pentagon says they're down, but it has neither released its numbers nor explained how they're calculated. According to a draft report from the Government Accountability Office, which was leaked to the press because officials were afraid the office would be pressured into changing the report's conclusions, U.S. government agencies "differ" on whether sectarian violence has been reduced. And independent attempts by news agencies to estimate civilian deaths from news reports, hospital records and other sources have not found any significant decline...
...Above all, we should remember that the whole point of the surge was to create space for political progress in Iraq. And neither that leaked G.A.O. report nor the recent National Intelligence Estimate found any political progress worth mentioning. There has been no hint of sectarian reconciliation, and the Iraqi government, according to yet another leaked U.S. government report, is completely riddled with corruption.
But, say the usual suspects, General Petraeus is a fine, upstanding officer who wouldn't participate in a campaign of deception - apparently forgetting that they said the same thing about Mr. Powell...
...And General Petraeus's history also suggests that he is much more of a political, and indeed partisan, animal than his press would have you believe...' |
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THE AUSTRALIAN US troop surge in Iraq 'working' quote: [/QSeptember 03, 2007
THE US troop surge in Iraq is having a positive effect with the overall number of attacks at the lowest level for a year, Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said today.
Dr Nelson, who has just returned from a trip to Iraq, Afghanistan and Washington, said US commander in Iraq General David Petraeus, had given him a detailed briefing on material he would present to Congress next week.
He said General Petraeus had given an insight into what he was likely to say in his testimony - although he declined to reveal what recommendations the General would present.
"One thing that is clearly important is that at a military level the surge is certainly having some positive consequences. It works hand in glove with the Iraqi security forces to which Australia has contributed significantly in training over 15,000," he told ABC radio.
Dr Nelson said ethno-sectarian Sunni versus Shia violence for August was likely to be the lowest for a year, although that was distorted by the recent devastating bombing near the Syrian border.
He said the total attack levels were down for eight of the last 11 weeks and were at the lowest level for a year.
UOTE]
[QUOTE] He said the troops surge the president agreed to earlier in the year had really only been fully implemented as of June.
"It is only in the last two months that there has been a statistically significant and noticeable improvement in security and it is obviously something that needs to be seen through," he said
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| Posts: 3165 | Location: From the Mountains to the Sea. | Registered: 06-08-02 | |
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quote: ...distorted by the recent devastating bombing near the Syrian border...
Yes, if we ignore the devastating bombings, things are going well. |
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quote: Yes, if we ignore the devastating bombings, things are going well.
I suppose that all bombings have to cease instantly for you to see progress. How ridiculous! |
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| Posts: 3165 | Location: From the Mountains to the Sea. | Registered: 06-08-02 | |
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No. I wouldn't expect all bombings to cease instantly, and I have already said, several times, that I see progress. Putting ridiculous words in my mouth is not going to win any arguments - it's just rhetorical trickery. I doubt anyone anywhere has ever said all bombings have to cease instantly before there can be said to be progress.
The surge has shown progress in some areas by some measures. In making a judgement about whether or not the surge is working, that limited progress has to be balanced against lack of progress in other areas, and put into the wider context.
For example, if Al Anbar is quiet - is that unalloyed good news? Or does it also mean that there's a powerful and united Sunni area which is implacably opposed to the central Iraqi government?
Overall, I think we can't say that the surge is working - particularly because of the lack of political progress, without which any military successes are unsustainable and pointless.
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quote: Originally posted by Scotty: quote: Yes, if we ignore the devastating bombings, things are going well.
I suppose that all bombings have to cease instantly for you to see progress. How ridiculous!
LMAO, and their spin continues. |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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Charles - I found someone on a message board talking about criticism of the US President. Unfortunately, it's a Christian message board. Could you maybe give us some idea of the domain names of the muslim message boards you visited? The languages they're in? The background colours? Some words or phrases they used? Looking for what you described is like looking for a needle in a haystack. You did actually visit some 'muslim message boards', didn't you? |
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quote: Overall, I think we can't say that the surge is working - particularly because of the lack of political progress
We are doing our part and the surge is working. They have to start doing their part. |
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| Posts: 3165 | Location: From the Mountains to the Sea. | Registered: 06-08-02 | |
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quote: Originally posted by newnickname: Charles - I found someone on a message board talking about criticism of the US President. Unfortunately, it's a Christian message board. Could you maybe give us some idea of the domain names of the muslim message boards you visited? The languages they're in? The background colours? Some words or phrases they used? Looking for what you described is like looking for a needle in a haystack. You did actually visit some 'muslim message boards', didn't you?
Do you have Google in Canada? |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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quote: They have to start doing their part.
And if they don't, or can't? Whatever successes the surge has achieved would just be temporary, wouldn't they? Yes, Charles, we have Google. I haven't found any comments (in the English-language examples that turn up, anyway) along the lines of what you mention. Most such boards seem to be about religion rather than current events - and the contributors seem to be overwhelmingly from the UK or the US, where they understand the point of, and strength that lies in, being able to criticise one's own government. Why are you being so coy about where you saw those comments? What possible reason could there be for withholding any clue about which "muslim message boards" you visited? You could have given us the URL by now, and saved a whole lot of typing. |
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quote: Originally posted by Dwight:
For Charles B: You can use your History button on the Browser window to look back in time to your visit to the Muslum Message Boards. Once located, you can post the address here. I hope this is helpful.
Dwight
I could but I won't, but keep asking though. |
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| Posts: 133 | Location: Calif. | Registered: 08-01-07 | |
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quote: I could but I won't, but keep asking though.
Well, I haven't asked for this, but I thought you might wish to provide the link. Sorry if I offended you. Dwight |
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| Posts: 4332 | Location: Anchorage, AK | Registered: 06-05-02 | |
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quote: I could but I won't...
You're saying you do have the information there at your fingertips, but you just won't tell us? This one - Marokko Community looks pretty active. Where would I find them sniggering at the decadent West, though? The poetry section? Dating? What's "Levensbeschouwing"? This one - Madinat al Muslimeen is in English, at least. I guess laughing at America would be in the 'Bebzi Stand' - "kind of like the water cooler area at work". Am I warm? |
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Meanwhile, back at the surge: 'Republican support could hinge on Petraeus' testimony next week. If he can convince lawmakers that the security gains won in recent months are substantial and point toward a bigger trend, GOP members might be more likely to hold out until next spring. They also might be more easily persuaded if Bush promises some small troop drawdowns by the end of the year...' www.guardian.co.uk |
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'Senior American military commanders often say they do not arm these groups. But two soldiers in Pinkerton's battalion said that when they find weapons caches, they often let the Volunteers keep AK-47 rifles and ammunition.
"We do that as a means to benefit them and to curry favor," one soldier said, on condition of anonymity. The soldier agreed that security had improved greatly in the area since the Volunteers began cooperating, but asked what would follow the defeat or ouster of al-Qaeda in Iraq: "I think there is some risk of them being Volunteers by day and terrorists by night."' Signing Up Sunnis With 'Insurgent' on Their Résumés
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'The surge of additional U.S. troops in Iraq has failed to curtail violence against Iraqi civilians, an independent government agency reported Tuesday.
Citing data from the Pentagon and other U.S. agencies, the Government Accountability Office found that daily attacks against civilians in Iraq have remained "about the same" since February, when the United States began sending nearly 30,000 additional troops to improve security in Iraq.
The GAO also found that the number of Iraqis fleeing violence in their neighborhoods is increasing, with as many as 100,000 Iraqis a month leaving their homes in search of safety.
The GAO’s conclusions contradict repeated assertions by the White House and the Pentagon in advance of the coming congressional debate on whether to stay the course in Iraq or to begin some withdrawal of U.S. troops.
Neither a July report from the White House nor a report last month from 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, however, provided any statistics to support their claims that the surge has improved security. The GAO report, in contrast, includes charts showing the number of attacks against Iraqi civilians, Iraqi security forces and U.S. troops. Only attacks against U.S. troops have declined in recent weeks.' www.mcclatchydc.com
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