Hi Gang:

Here's my take on why Obama can't beat Hillary.

I.Blacks and Hispanics are both on the bottom rung of the wage scale as far as jobs are concerned.Most are working at the lowest paying jobs in the country.

2.Blacks and Hispanics are living in the poorest neighborhoods and Hispanics are pushing Blacks out of traditional Black neighborhoods.

3.Blacks and Hispanics have the greatest numbers of school droputs and,as a result,are the poorest educated and least qualified for the better,higher paying jobs.

4.Blacks and Hispanic street gangs are in a constant war with each other for control of the illegal Drug market,particularly in the largest cities of our country.

5.Blacks rarely vote Republican so the Democrats feel that Blacks have no other choice.

6.Hispanics feel that Republicans are the only party trying to close down the border to illegals.

7.Since Blacks and Hispanics are both vying for the same jobs and the same neighborhood housing...

why would any Hispanic vote for a Black man for President???

The Hispanics are Hillary's secret weapon!

This may sound racist to some ,but what I have cited are truths,no matter how unpleasant they are to read.

hippolips

quote:

Originally posted by hippolips:
This may sound racist to some...

The Democrats have already brought race, gender and economic disparity into the public debate, so the card is in play.

It's difficult for us non-US citizens to grasp, but one of the things that might also be happening in the primaries is anticipation of other voters' reactions in the national vote:

'...I spoke with several Latino supporters of Hillary Clinton. The common theme was that they were voting for a return to the days of Bill Clinton. Ricardo Suarez said that "Bill Clinton was like a Kennedy to Latinos; he provided hope, and Hillary can bring us back to the Clinton era, and that is why Latinos support Hillary."

Nevada Assemblyman Ruben Kihuen, a young Latino elected official, also told Truthout that it was the economy that attracts Latinos to the Clinton campaign. He said that "we know what the Clintons did for working people in the 90's and while we like Obama, we know Hillary Clinton and trust her to address the needs of our community."

The most troubling reaction came from a few Latino supporters - but was not a widely held belief - that because Obama was black he would not be able to win in November...' www.truthout.org

quote:

Originally posted by newnickname:
It's difficult for us non-US citizens to grasp,

If only it were just that!

Some of us are trying to grasp how Republicans choose between a man who thinks the world is only 6,000 years old, and the theory of evolution is wrong, and one who thinks that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri!

I live just across the river from Missouri. If that's the Garden, someone should fire the gardener.

quote:

Originally posted by FredPuli:
...a man who thinks the world is only 6,000 years old....

Which Republican is that?

Whatever theory is correct, CNN just put up a poll. Among Hispanics:

Support Clinton: 59 %
Support Obama: 15 %

How would McCain fare? Border control has been one of his "weak" issues with conservatives. Having served for years from Arizona, surely he must have some appeal with Hispanic voters.

quote:

Which Republican is that?

Huckabee has been saying that "we don't know" how old the earth is - or quipping that he wasn't there. That's maybe just evasion, however. Whether he's a 'biblical literalist' or someone who accepts the scientific evidence about the age of the earth, Huckabee should have the courage to say so plainly.

'Maher called Huckabee on this:

Why shouldn't it be part of a political discussion? If someone believes that the earth is 6000 years old, when every scientist in the world tells us it's billions of years old, why shouldn't I take that into account when I'm assessing the rationality of someone I'm going to put into the highest office in the land?

Huckabee had no cogent answer; he said that the point was that "we don't know."' notesfromatransitionalfossil

Going back to the original question, it does strike me as technically "racist" (I'm not saying anyone here is racist) to try to predict how someone will vote based on his or her ethnicity (although it's common, and as was pointed out, it's exactly what the candidates do, too). 'Race' is just an arbitrary choice of how to break down voting figures. Why not choose to focus on voting differences between dog-lovers versus cat-lovers, or the generations, and so on and so on?

That's a far cry from "a man who thinks the earth is 6000 years old."

I don't know how old it is. Do you?

Does it matter if the President knows?

I just looked up what seems to be generally accepted by scientists. My own memory was off (I was thinking of the age for the universe which is fairly broad).

For my money, Huckabee's answer to this question was among the finest moments any candidate had during the debates.

Further, here is how Huckabee answered Maher's questions. NNN, I think you missed his point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXajXz4DF1w

Maher, as anyone with any sense could tell, was obviously being objective

As I see the Barack Obama candidacy, I look at it as a "can't lose" for his White House bid. Even if he loses the nomination to Hillary, he still comes out ahead in the long run.

A couple of scenarios.

1) Hillary wins the nomination, she decides to mend fences with Barack Obama. Should they team up & win the election, he is the first African American Vice President. And that is the natural spring board to eventually being nominated for President 4-8 years down the road.

2) Should Hillary lose, with or without Barack on the ticket, in 2012, he will be the top contender for the Democrats. He's already shown he can raise the campaign dollars. He's already proven he is a very formidable candidate. Another 4 years of behind the scenes work could certainly benefit his cause. Potentially it could be a situation, nobody could touch him.

The youtube clip shows Huckabee being embarrassed and evasive.An eighth grader is, what, 13 ?A youth of that age ought to know what science teaches (or is the standard of education in the US exceptionally abysmal?You produce great scientists, but that may not reflect the generality)Huckabee was being dealt with very lightly by the questioner.

An eighth grader here might know that scientists consider the earth to be 4.5 - 4.6 billion years old.

How old was it supposed to be when Huckabee was in the eighth grade? Has the answer changed?

And why do the same dating methods "prove" that events we know about happened at some other time? The dating methods aren't exact.

Do British children learn that a large meteor hit the earth millions of years ago, resulting in a cloud producing a winter that wiped out the dinosaurs? Good for them! Science is now questioning that theory, too.

Mike Huckabee sees the hand of a Creator in the universe, rather than accepting creation as a random happening. Is that so absurd? What answer does science currently give on the creation of the universe?

Fred, one thing is certain. Huckabee in no way, shape or form ever said that the earth is 6,000 years old.

Have you watched the debate clip, where he wasn't being questioned by a biased comic?

quote:

Originally posted by coldfuse:


Mike Huckabee sees the hand of a Creator in the universe, rather than accepting creation as a random happening. Is that so absurd? What answer does science currently give on the creation of the universe?

It would be nice if he said that evolution was part of that process. That's what Christians who are scientists hold. They don't deny a creator but say rather that any creator set evolution in motion. Huckabee wouldn't and won't admit that evolution happened and then pretends that this is all beyond our knowledge .

Since you mention it, British children are taught whatever science currently tells us, scientific doubts and all. So far we've kept untenable and unsupported belief out of the classroom.If it can't be supported then it has no place in wasting the time and minds of the young. Our children will, we expect, grow up with the same enquiring and testing minds that belonged to our previous generations.'Don't know' will not be seen as sufficient to put a full stop to thinking and rational enquiry.

quote:

And why do the same dating methods "prove" that events we know about happened at some other time?

Which methods are those?

Science does not know anything for sure. All scientific explanations are 'just theories' based on what evidence and ideas have come up so far. It's all subject to change. That doesn't mean that teachers should make time to teach any and every fable or myth alongside the broad, current scientific consensus. For Creationists to use the 'we don't know for sure' idea to promote teaching their particular view of their particular religion in certain classes is disingenuous.

Huckabee's borrowing the same idea is maybe not connected to the Creationist campaign - but it certainly could look that way.

I think voters who care about science teaching (and those who want the literalist Christian take on the Bible taught in school) would be right to doubt Huckabee. He doesn't sound straightforward and honest on this point.

Hi Gang:

The original topic was "Why Obama Can't Win"

How did we get so far off topic?????????????

hippolips

Getting back on topic then, I'm wondering what the relevance of Point 4. is:

quote:

4.Blacks and Hispanic street gangs are in a constant war with each other for control of the illegal Drug market,particularly in the largest cities of our country.

Is the idea that Hispanic voters will tend to vote against Obama, because that will somehow express sympathy for or cheer on Hispanic gangsters? What's the connection?

I guess one answer to the question "why would any Hispanic vote for a black man for president?" would be that he or she agreed with him on some issues, or thought that he might make a good president. I mean, we're not talking about any Hispanic voter here, are we, but a general tendency that has maybe been identified for Hispanic voters to favor Clinton. There are some Hispanic Obama supporters - about 15% of them according to Coldfuse's figures.

Point 2. is a little puzzling, too:

quote:

Blacks and Hispanics are living in the poorest neighborhoods and Hispanics are pushing Blacks out of traditional Black neighborhoods.

Does this mean we have to imagine a Hispanic voter thinking "If Obama is elected, it'll be more difficult for me to buy a house, because a black family will get it, because..."? Or "Oh no! [= 'Guevos!'?], if Obama is elected, I'll have black neighbours..."?

Maybe some people do think that way, but it's a depressing idea, and it seems to be a strange perspective on presidential influence.

And point 6.:

quote:

6.Hispanics feel that Republicans are the only party trying to close down the border to illegals.

What has that got to do with Hispanics favouring Clinton over Obama? Is Obama seen as one of those "let's build a BIG wall at the border" numbskulls too? It surely just means that they might not vote Republican - although surely many Hispanics do.

Hi Newnickname:

Since you are Canadian you will naturally have a very detached view of the role Race plays in California Cities.

I live in a city located about one and one half hours drive from the Mexican border,I'm also about the same distance from downtown Los Angeles.

A few facts:Because of our country's open border policy,aliens from Mexico,Central and South America stream over our borders daily.

Most of them head straight for Los Angeles to obtain phoney Green Cards and phoney Driver's licenses and Phoney Social Security cards.Many of them live and try to find work and housing in the Greater Los Angeles area.

Because most of them are unskilled and most are illiterate they can only find the lowest paying jobs available,jobs usually filled by Blacks with the same lack of skills.

Since these jobs are low paying,they also have to seek the lowest cost housing,these are what has been traditionally Black neighborhoods.

In these neighborhoods the streets are controlled by Black and Hispanic street gangs.The neighborhoods live in fear of these gangs so much so that Mothers are afraid to allow their children to play in their own front yards.They also are afraid to go out at night for fear of getting blown away by some teenage street gangster.

In summary,Blacks and Hispanics are competing for the same jobs,housing and neighborhoods.And it's not going to get better in the forseeable future,I'm afraid.

If you doubt my words,come to L.A. for a week and watch our nightly news on ABC,NBC and CBS.

Is it all about Race...yes it is.Like it or not,it's the way it is in L.A.

hippolips