After a parent who supports the teaching of creationism and opposes sex education complained about the film, the Federal Way School Board on Tuesday placed what it labeled a moratorium on showing the film. The movie consists largely of a PowerPoint presentation by former Vice President Al Gore recounting scientists' findings.
"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. "The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is.... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/011107EA.shtml ****************************************************** 01-11-07, 07:25 PM FredPuli Why don't condoms belong in school?And other contraceptives and the 'morning-after pill' too?. Heck, we have them in Britain for our schoolchidren (I'm with the man on the rest. I'm all for teaching creationism: there's room for religion in American schools. We have it in ours Big Grin )
01-11-07, 07:27 PM DorianGreyed Maybe he thinks global warming is part of God's plan so that "in the end times everything will burn up". But he needs to get his timeline straight. Everyone knows that the Earth was created in October 23, 4004 BC. (I think it was a Monday, if I remember corretly. I should ask Karrow: she'll remember.)
01-11-07, 07:41 PM FredPuli
quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed: Everyone knows that the Earth was created in October 23, 4004 BC. (I think it was a Monday, if I remember corretly. I should ask Karrow: she'll remember.)
No need.Dr John Lighfoot, in 1644,had had the time as 9 am on Sunday, September 12th 3928 but Bishop Ussher corrected that and gave the true time and date as sunset on Thursday, the 22nd of October , the main work starting on Friday, October 23rd,4004 BC. So it started in Autumn: hence it was in the fall of the house of Ussher.
01-11-07, 08:36 PM DorianGreyed "...hence it was in the fall of the house of Ussher."
That was a Poe attempt at humour.
01-11-07, 08:56 PM babthrower Condoms have no place in schools. Birth control has no place in schools. Evolution has no place in schools. Science has no place in schools unless it is reborn as Religion.
Wouldn't it be simpler if the Religious Right and the Republican Wrong simply abolished schools?
And established a state church which all children must attend each day so that they will think nothing but Right Thoughts?
After all, the Founding Fathers of the American democracies got it all wrong. We shouldn't have the vote based on individual conscience. The people need religious leadership in order to point out to them how to vote correctly. This task is best done in churches.
But of course there can only be one true church. So we cannot tolerate more than the one true religion.
We can determine which one that is quite simply, by following the model of those who fought the crusades, the Hundred Years War, and those who are now fighting for religious hegemony in the middle east. Only now we can use nuclear weapons.
And since the American model for schooling is no longer valid, we must look to another model. Somewhere where science is making no advances, and therefore childish innocence is uncorrupted. Somewhere where do-gooders don't intrude into matters which don't concern them.
Somalia comes to mind.
01-12-07, 12:26 AM honilov
quote: Wouldn't it be simpler if the Religious Right and the Republican Wrong simply abolished schools?
It might come to that if the ignorant no-gooders keep shooting up the schools and killing the students.
01-12-07, 05:38 AM Fourbrick2 Quote "Bishop Ussher.......gave the true time and date as sunset on Thursday, the 22nd of October , the main work starting on Friday, October 23rd,4004 BC."
"On the seventh day, he rested". So according to the Bishop, the Sabbath is Thursday, not Sunday. Why didn't he change his day of worship? 01-12-07, 10:13 AM aminator2002 We need to start building a "B Ark" right away. The world is no longer big enough for all of us.
For all Gore’s attempts to present himself as a fierce advocate of the environment, it is remarkable that during the time when he would have had the greatest political influence, he had no impact.
Gore and the Democratic Party have no interest in drawing attention to the role of private profit in the devastation of the environment.
As part of his politically motivated evasion of the basic issues behind global warming, Gore insists that the problem is not fundamentally political or social, but personal and “moral.” It is not a question of revealing the social interests that have prevented any serious consideration of environmental questions, but of encouraging people to make better individual decisions. The blame lies not at the feet of energy companies and the private ownership of the means of production, but of ordinary American people.
The film ends with a question: “Are you ready to change the way you live?” Viewers are directed to a web site, www.climatecrisis.net, which advises consumers to turn down their heating in the winter and air conditioning in the summer, and to use more efficient light bulbs to save energy. After a presentation that paints a dire picture of the future of life on earth if global warming is not halted, such a conclusion would be laughable if it were not so politically duplicitous and cynical.
The real “inconvenient truth” about Gore and global warming is that the political perspective he embodies is utterly incapable of dealing with the problem.
Al Gore isn't really an environmentalist or scientist by profession, he is using the environment as a tool, much the same way that Bush is using his Christian label to keep the religious right in his pocket. In my view, Gore is a bore and a whore. Let's stick to real science, and real solutions. Is there one?
On Sex Education-
I'm all for sex education in schools, because kids should know what happens to their bodies. My daughter is armed already with the proper information, and it is not distorted by what other kids are doing and saying. Even some of the most enlightened people I know don't teach their kids about sex, including atheists and semi-religious people, and I think it's a mistake.
On Creationism-
Just 50 years ago, creationism was the accepted way of thinking and evolution was bad. I just caught Inherit the Wind on PBS last week. Nowadays, you are not allowed to even speak of anything else lest you be branded an ignoramus or bigot. I'm not allowed to believe in God or creation. However, evolution is the only theory there is, and I told Victoria she must learn it. Religion has no place in the classroom, but it does have a place in my life, and it's still a free country the last time I checked.
01-12-07, 01:03 PM aminator2002 um, I'm no big fan of Al Gore but that article you link to is a gross distortion in my opinion. Talk about picking apart something in any possible manner available.
Have you seen the movie VV? The end didn't just ask a couple questions, it was a pretty exhaustive list of things people can do to make a personal change.
Yes, the end of the movie does make it personal because after watching I think there is a tremendous hopeless feeling that could overcome viewers. Obviously, it is a huge political mess that can be used by the Democrats just as much as the Republicans to distort our views of something that is in essence scientific, but your article is very harsh in my opinion.
Is this really your opinion after seeing it or are you just posting from the World Socialist website for some reason?
01-12-07, 01:05 PM babthrower VV, I hope we have not suggested that you ought not to have the freedom to believe and follow religious views as your conscience dictates.
The objection (speaking for myself here) is to the attempts to teach religion as science in the schools.
I insist that you should have the right to believe what you like, and bring your children up to believe as you do (except of course where parents teach a religion which deprives their own children of their legal rights, e.g. the right to education withheld by the fundamentalist LDS). But I know you would never deprive your children of their rights.
But the same freedom is not granted in the totally different field of science. As you clearly know, one cannot simply believe whatever one likes in the sciences. One is expected to pay attention to data. In science, it will ruin your career if you ignore data.
Some scientists make mistakes and these can persist for quite a long time. For example, most doctors refused to accept evidence that a virus is implicated in stomach ulcers. But eventually the data won out, and even the most hidebound now accept the theory.
But a doctor who flatly denies a well-established theory, such as germ theory, would be condemned as unscientific. The evidence for germ theory is just too overwhelming to be denied any longer.
The reason religions present so many contradictory theories is that the theories of religion are not testable.
01-12-07, 01:07 PM aminator2002 The idea that I would care if someone wants to believe in Creationism is offensive. Believe what you want but don't force other kids to learn it by trying to force it into public schools.
The biggest problem I have with the religious in this country is that they want to distort other peoples opinions.
There is absolutely no problem if a kid wants to pray in a public school. I don't know anyone that would have a problem with that. What would be a problem is a teacher leading kids in prayer. It's all distortion from the right. Make the people against religion in public school seem like they are persecuting Christians.
01-12-07, 02:34 PM VelvetVoice Ami-to be honest, I have not seen the movie, nor do I intend to (unless it's on TV for free!) I think there really is global warming, but I don't believe there is a chance, individually, of straightening out the total mess that this world is in. Too little, too late. So I will continue to do my part, which is a drop in a very messy bucket.
As to evolution in schools, I am speaking from experience. Victoria has been told, several times, she is not allowed to pray or bring the Bible or any church material to school, even for personal reading. She was not allowed to read or recommend Pilgrim's Progress either. She can't even mention her AWANA club to her classmate or discuss activities during lunch. They told her she and her girlfriend would be separated if they continue to talk about it OVER LUNCH. This is a public school, and all of it is suppressed.
And I casually mentioned to someone at work that evolution was a theory, and people jumped all over me. Now I am fighting a credibility issue. Man, I wish I kept my big mouth shut!
01-12-07, 04:07 PM aminator2002 I don't care if you see the movie or not, I think it would be good for everyone to see it but that's just an opinion. I do think it is nuts that your original post is a critical review with mostly false information about the movie, and you can have no idea because you haven't seen the movie.
One could say it hurts your credibility. Wink
01-12-07, 04:46 PM newnickname If you were saying that evolution is a theory in order to criticise it, of course everyone jumped all over you.
In science, 'theory' has a specific, technical meaning - "a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena". 'Theory' can also mean "an unproved assumption" in casual, everyday speech.
Confusing the two meanings is a tediously over-used creationist attempt at obfuscation.
(Definitions from m-w.com.)
01-12-07, 06:35 PM DorianGreyed "Al Gore isn't really an environmentalist or scientist by profession, he is using the environment as a tool, much the same way that Bush is using his Christian label to keep the religious right in his pocket. In my view, Gore is a bore and a whore. Let's stick to real science, and real solutions. Is there one?"
In the early 90s, in the run-up to the Democratic national convention in 1992, I supported Al Gore for the Democratic candidate because of his environmental record and how he felt about the environment. He was more environmentally aware (and concerned) than any of the other major players on the political scene at that time. Saying or implying that he is just an opportunist or that he is just using the very real problem of global warming only to advance his political stature is either speaking from ignorance or willfully changing the truth.
As the Vice President, he, like almost every VP before him, had little input into Administration policies. Had he actually had influence, it would have still been difficult to accomplish a great deal under the Congress the Clinton administration had to deal with for 75% of its time in office.
01-12-07, 07:10 PM DorianGreyed "Just 50 years ago, creationism was the accepted way of thinking and evolution was bad. I just caught Inherit the Wind on PBS last week."
Fifty years ago, evolution was an accepted part of science taught in schools. I was in 2nd grade at the time, and distinctly remember a project for science class that I did, which involved dinosaurs (I had models of about a dozen at home. There really weren't a great many dinosaurs known then; it was a very easy assignment.) Another kid (Ronnie something - he was a bad boy. Mad Big Grin) did something similar, except he had cavemen with his dinosaurs. The teacher (Mrs. Amyx) explained to him that the dinosaurs were long gone befoe man appeared on the scene. Most of the kids in the class knew that dinosaurs only mixed with people in movies. (I didn't go to any special or advanced school. In fact, the school served the lowest socio-economic group in the blue collar steel mill town of about 40,000.)
The play "Inherit the Wind", a fictionalized account of the 1925 Scopes Trial (the "Monkey" Trial), opened on Broadway in January 1955, and in 1960, the film came out. I remember reading the play when I was in junior high school.
01-12-07, 07:38 PM babthrower
quote: She was not allowed to read or recommend Pilgrim's Progress either.
VV, this seems to me wrong on the school's part. That book was a religious tract in its day, but it has become a classic of literature, largely because of its style and imaginative qualities.
If she recommends it as a work of literature, I think the school was wrong to prevent her.
If she was presenting it as a religious document, however, and hoped to influence her friends' choice of belief, then I can see the objection.
When I was teaching in a Vancouver high school, one young lady was a very militant feminist. Now I, too, am a feminist. But I had to censor one of her presentations because she was not presenting information about women's liberation, which was her assignment. She was trying to convert classmates to become libbers.
01-13-07, 01:12 AM coldfuse
quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed: The teacher (Mrs. Amyx) explained to him that the dinosaurs were long gone befoe man appeared on the scene.
Too bad Karrow didn't pop by for eyewitness testimony.
01-13-07, 05:57 PM Karrow
quote: Originally posted by coldfuse:
quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed: The teacher (Mrs. Amyx) explained to him that the dinosaurs were long gone befoe man appeared on the scene.
Too bad Karrow didn't pop by for eyewitness testimony.
Karrow "pops by" to polish jackboots. Mad
01-13-07, 07:13 PM babthrower K, remember this parting shot?
Clair Boothe Luce and Dorothy Parker arrived together at a door. Luce indicated that Parker should go first and said: "Age before beauty". Parker sailed regally through the door and replied: "Pearls before swine."
01-13-07, 08:27 PM DorianGreyed Oddly enough, the movie, "Inherit the Wind", is on the St. Louis PBS this evening.
01-15-07, 07:11 PM frankvan Speaking of Dorothy Parker: my favorite quote of Dorothy Parker's was: "If all the girls who attended the Yale Prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised". Wink
01-17-07, 02:44 PM Valor D It's a truly scary and disturbing thing to witness- some of the utter idiots they have "teaching" our Nation's children, these days. It sounds like this guy should be leading a cult down in Texas or something. Instead of leading our children into the abyss of ignorance!
As I've stated here before, Religion should stick to what it knows, and Science should stick to what it knows. And, never the 'twain should meet!
Eek
01-17-07, 04:17 PM juanruiz
quote: Luce indicated that Parker should go first and said: "Age before beauty". Parker sailed regally through the door and replied: "Pearls before swine."
My rejoinder to that line has always been "Beauty was a horse."
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
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