Hi dg:

I'd still be interested in CarGolga's answer.

hippolips

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DorianGreyed:
Hippo, I've not seen Liberals being sensitive about identifying themselves as such.

----------------------------------------------- Hi dg:

If this is true ,why are so many Liberals now identifying themselves as Progressives???

hippolips

I've not seen that. It seems to me to be the same thing.

quote:

Now, if you want to talk about people being ashamed to (or afraid to) identify themselves accurately, take a look at a lot of the old posts in here, and see how many people claim to be an independent or a Libertarian...

For the record, I was registered "unaffiliated" for 14 years. This seemed convenient for primary voting, where I could select either party.

I am now registered, as I once was, as a Republican.

Surprise, surprise (effecting Gomer Pyle, USMC accent).

quote:

Originally posted by hippolips:
Hi dg:

I'd still be interested in CarGolga's answer.

hippolips

Actually I don't consider myself to be a "liberal", and I don't buy into this whole liberal/conservative business. This kind of lazy thinking might fly on talk radio or on cable news networks, but in real life things are more complex. Like a lot of people my views on some issues of the day are "liberal", some of my thinking might be considered "conservative".

I guess that when I see someone constantly using the term "liberal" in a pejorative sense, I tend to discount them as thoughtless "dittoheads" or whatever.

quote:

and I don't buy into this whole liberal/conservative business. This kind of lazy thinking might fly on talk radio or on cable news networks, but in real life things are more complex.

I think this may well be why, since Jeeves, I have considered Gar a kindred spirit. He has, in fact, uttered my favorite comment ever on any site, when he questioned why the god of the universe was concerned with spending his time measuring Jesus belief. Really quite brilliant, and one I have borrowed (read stolen) on several occasions, much to the chagrin of believers. The thing is, there may be no room for people who think in shades of gray; who may be in favor of some "liberal" concepts and some "conservative" concepts. It really is too easy to just paste on labels and let it go at that.

juan if you want to label me as a kindred spirit that's OK by me. I'm flattered!

Before the days of talk show hosts that yelled and screamed and carried on like children, there seemed to have been some respectable aspect of the Republican/Conservative party. Now I listen to their spokespeople like Rush, Hannity or that awful woman Coulter and I can't believe that there is anything but hate and fear guiding the majority of the party. Fear of "terruh", fear of immigration, fear of abortion, fear of flag burners, fear of everything that isn't like the old days that never were (and fear and hatred for everything the party leaders wants them to hate and fear.) I come from a Republican background and I think the old concepts of small government, low taxes, free market and personal freedom are valuable concepts but where is that in George Bush (or now McCain)? It's just not there, and the past 8 years have been disastrous for this country. We could have stayed the course after 9-11 and stayed on the task of going after Osama and the terrorists that attacked us, but through a lot of trickery and plain and simple BS, George and his clan have cost this country billions and several thousand of American lives and several thousands of Iraqi lives. They have produced no measurable improvement to the economy (quite the contrary from where I sit) that we were left at the end of Clinton's terms... which I was not a fan of either so I am not a Clinton lover by any means.

I was very proud of our country when 9-11 happened and how the people handled, coped and responded. Ever since the war diverted to Iraq we've had very little success because we have no measurable goals like "Dead or Alive"... which was the mission and unfortunately our military have not been allowed the honor of finishing that mission. Now the conservative pundits want to take apart Obama for saying he'd go after "a" target (implied bin Laden) without Pakistan's approval or backing. Well, sorry guys but that's the kind of "oops" I could get behind if he succeeded.

We went after a President of a sovereign nation for falsified information with Bush. I am now a liberal by all labeling standards from the right and I wouldn't have said a single negative word if Bush had stepped way over the line in pursuit of that goal.

I still think small government, free economy and all the old ethos of conservativism are right, but what I can't get behind is how Bush has spent billions and billions of dollars and lives on a cause that has done nothing for THIS country. Even if they'd succeeded at finishing their little pipeline dream of Iraq I'd be happier. It's true that I don't like war of any type, but I firmly believe that we must not back down from the NEED to go to war.

Conservatives have been spouting about how wrong political correctness as constructed by liberals is - meaning the sensitivity about racial comments or gender discriminating comments, but they've done a number on this country when it comes to discussing military leadership of this country. If I were to say publicly that I think it's absolute crap that we haven't succeeded in the mission of getting Osama bin Laden, I would be jumped by some idiot telling me that I don't support the troops. I DO support our troops... I want them to succeed at a legitimate mission and I want to motivate our leaders to pursue that legitimate mission.

I wonder if at this point anyone even remembers how fondly we considered the concept of bringing Osama to justice after the tragedy on 9-11?

Is anyone going to remember that "Dead or Alive" was promised to us? Did someone seriously say that George Bush would be remembered fondly by history... what nonsense.

I have some respect for the conservative side of the right wing but they've all been fooled and a big wake up is needed.
Hopefully Obama will succeed and we'll get headed in the right direction again.