Did anyone watch Primetime 20/20 on 4/27? Barbara Walter talked with 3 families that are allowing their children to live the life of that of an opposite sex. A quote from the Primetime site:

"On the surface, the Jennings and their four children are a typical American family. But their youngest child, Jazz, is only in kindergarten, and already she is one of the youngest known cases of an early transition from male to female....So how does a 5-year-old biological boy begin living as a girl? For Jazz, it meant growing her hair out, piercing her ears, and wearing dresses everywhere -- even to kindergarten."
I'm a girl.

Another story is about a 14 year old girl Rebecca, who lives her life as a boy

"Jeremy began to transition into a boy almost immediately after coming out to his parents. He got his hair cut short. He asked his parents to stop referring to him as a she. He bought all his clothes, down to the socks and underwear, from the boys' department. He also began to wear a binder, a Lycra vest that painfully flattened his breasts." When he turned 16 his parents allowed him to start getting daily shots of testosterone to help him transition fully into a male.
I want to be a male.

The third family described their transgendered daughter as someone who "has a birth defect, and we call it that. I can't think of a worse birth defect, as a woman to have, than to have a penis," Riley's mother, Stephanie, told Barbara Walters." God Made a Mistake

All three sets of parents share a common theme. They have allowed their child to decide what sex they want to be, they let them dress as that sex, and in some cases have allowed their child to chemically start altering their genetic makeup. I was curious what you all thought about this. Do you really think it is possible to know as early as 2 years old that you should be one sex over the other? How many of us really even remember being 2 years old? Are these parents really being supportive or are they feeding a delusion?

This is a tough call. I know people who claim they knew at very early ages that they were gay, but I don’t even remember being conscious at the ages they mention so I don’t know what to think. You don’t want to call them liars, but it’s hard to believe.

I have two great-grandchildren, a boy of six and a girl 3. I wouldn't say that either of them was ever confused about their gender, nor could any one else be. The boy has been whacking a baseball over the fence for the past three years and was moved up by the coaches into the next higher age group in little league. Claire, on the other hand, has been talking up a storm almost from birth, dresses in hats, scarves, beads, and takes piano and ballet and claims to be the best dancer in the world. I'm sure that it is typical for girls to develop verbal skills much sooner than boys, and for boys to be more physical and agressive. I don't believe it is entirely identifying with the parents because I see the same thing happening with children of single parents, etc.

I'm convinced that nature sometimes gets the recipe screwed up a little and the newborn child's sex is not obvious or clearly defined at birth. Many obstetricians have reported having to make a choice based on what genitalia appeared more dominant. I'm sure that sometimes they guessed wrong and the result would be tragic. A child growing up and never feeling comfortable with his/her assigned peer group due to some obvious handicap is bad enough, but when there is no acknowledged or recognized reason or remedy, it must be unbearable.

I can't imagine what the parents of such a child must go through. For some time the Johns Hopkins Hospital here in Baltimore pioneered in "correcting" surgically, and with hormones and psychological counselling, but I have heard in recent years that they stopped doing it because the results were not terribly successful. An added burden for the families with such a problem is the fact that sometimes what is screwed up is the brains of either or both parent(s) and child. Some people are convinced that they are Napoleon Bonaparte, or The Virgin Mary. I've even met people who screwed up their own son because they already had one boy and they wanted a girl, so they dressed this little boy as a girl for the first few years of his life, and produced a screwed up teen requiring years of psychotherapy. I certainly wouldn't presume to judge the parents in any of the cited cases; I'm just grateful I've never had those concerns in my own family.

I am trying not to judge the parents or the kids because they are just kids, but a 2 year old that says "I have the wrong genitalia" is so unlikely to me...

What's wrong Johnny?

I have the wrong genitalia Mommy.

At 2 years of age... it is really stretching for me to buy it. I can't help thinking there was some kind of lead in to that. I've seen my friends react to their little boys wearing nail polish and enjoying dress up time, and it doesn't have to end in "Well, I guess because Johnny enjoys dressing like a girl that he shoulda been a girl." There are many neutral positions and many ways of saying "You can play at whatever you want Johnny but you have a penis and you might find that you want to be a boy later, so let's focus on trying to just be you rather than a super girlie girl version of you." Gender roles are just roles and a kid needs to develop a lot of other things more important than gender identity and it shouldn't cause so much pain for everyone.

Just my thoughts, I can't say that I know what the parents went through, it just seems a bit off to me that a 6 year old is so obsessed with gender.

It's hard to imagine how anyone could possibly know this about themselves before entering puberty. Or, how any parents could or would go along with such a thing before their children mature. In my view, it's all pretty sick. Of course, it's not really up to me or anyone else to judge these people. It's for God to decide. Yet, it makes one wonder, doesn't it? Would God really do something like this to a child? Or, is it something else which caused this? Maybe instead of testosterone injections, these children would have better benefited from psychiatric injections.

I think this offers so many problems for so many reasons, that any judgements which might be made now would be hasty. First, given the centuries during which the question of sexuality was suppressed, due to religious considerations, scientific investigation is at the ground floor. Even now, the opprobium suffered by homosexuals at the hands of the "religious" has consequences. I agree with Frank's observation that sometimes, in utero, things get screwed up. Genders get switched. The physical and the integral become at odds. And, again, science has not had the chance to make major inroads into the question. Can one at a very early age innately feel "wrong-gendered"? Why not? Can one at a very early age show abilities in music, art, math? I think there is still much to learn about the whole question of sexuality: pedophilia, homosexuality, transgender, heterosexuality. As I said above, these questions have long been taboo. Hopefully, that will change. And, in changing, relieve many of the misery and hopelessness in which they live.

I didn't see the 20/20 special but did see several clips on other ABC news shows...These kids are not just waking up one morning and declaring they want to be a "boy" or a "girl" these aren't phases, they are on going...I have no idea what I would do in the situation...Right now I would probably take my very young child to get counseling and if the child still was certain they were in the wrong body I would let them dress and act as they wanted to...the hormone treatments, I would want to wait until the child is 100 percent positive when they reach an age of total understanding of what all this means.

quote:

when they reach an age of total understanding of what all this means.

Do we ever reach that age?

Has anyone watched "The Riches" on FX tv? It's a story about an American families of travellers (gypsies) produced by Eddie Izzard. The youngest child in the family is about 10 and cross-dresses with his family's understanding. They even use the boy's talent to assist them in their cons.

Eddie Izzard, for those who aren't familiar with him, is an actor/comedian who openly cross-dresses and has educated people about gender in his act. Don't know if the character in "The Riches" reflects his experience growing up or portrays the experience he wishes he'd had.

I believe every little boy and girl experiments with gender before reaching adolesence so it comes as no surprise to me when someone says they knew they were gay/transgendered/whatever at an early age. They tried something outside what was "expected" and felt normal be that putting on a dress or being a tomboy.

No one ever asks a heterosexual, "when did you know you were straight?" because the majority of people grow up feeling their sexuality is validated and feels "right." Simply put, many of us don't question our gender at a young age because we flow with the majority.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their inputs contributed to this post. Right after I posted this I lost my computer and was without one for a week. I didn't want you all to think that I posted and then didn't have the decency to acknowledge. So thanks...and I am glad that I was not alone in my thoughts on this special. And no Raku, I have not heard of The Riches but that might be something I will look into. Thanks

I saw the special. It was really hard to watch, not because of the kids, but because of what they went through. Everybody misunderstanding them. All they want is acceptance.

First, let's clarify some things. NONE of the children are on hormones. Hormones cannot be given until perhaps in the late teens. Parents can give hormone blockers during puberty, to keep the child from developing into the gender they do not wish to develop into, but until then these children are on nothing.

Second, all of them are in counseling. These parents are trying to follow the Harry Benjamin Code of Gender Dysphoria as best they can. These children have gone through many psychological exams and their doctors all agree they are gender dysphoric.They must be in counseling to eventually get hormones and get surgery as adults. Harry Benjamin has fairly stringent codes for allowing people to be approved for treatment. Not just anyone is allowed to transition. If there is any sign that there is psychological brainwashing, mental illness, etc. that could be coercing the individual into being a certain gender, the patient will not be allowed to transition.

Third, Riley, whose mother found her in the bathroom at three, with nail clippers, planning to try and cut her penis off didn't use the word genitalia. She used the terms kids are taught. Penis, wee wee, or whatever kids call them. Genitalia was used in the interview by her mother to describe what Riley did because it is a proper term...to explain what she said/did. She never felt she was supposed to have a penis and she wanted it gone. To this day, her mother says she still is depressed about the presence of her penis and cannot wait until she is old enough to be who she truly believes she is.

Fourth, Riley's parents were in denial until it got to the point where they allowed Riley to be who she was or she was going to attempt suicide. She struggled for years and even now, her dad has trouble accepting this. Her parents let her transition to SAVE her life. Why do you think the rate of suicide for both transgendered and Gay and Lesbian youth is so high?? Parents, peers, etc. will not accept or support them. Riley constantly threatened to end her life. They tried to make her live as a boy and she rebelled for years. Finally, their choice was let her be who she was by growing her hair out and changing her name (starting the early steps of transition) or face the prospect of losing their child.

If it was your child...would it be worth it to force your child to live as the gender their genitalia seemed to dictate for them if it meant you could possibly lose them to suicide?

Fifth, a similar story happened with Jazz. She refused to accept being treated as a boy. Her parents could either chose to lose their child/make her miserable or accept her as she was.

Lastly, no SRS surgery can be performed on these children until they are 18 and they decide to have it themselves.

These children have been humiliated enough by ignorance and misunderstanding. I say, just let them live their lives. If being a girl makes them happy...then so be it. We have so few pleasures in life as it is.

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I should add that I didn't mention Jeremy because I don't see Jeremy as a child. Jeremy came out HIMSELF. He told his parents...hey accept me or lose me, as a teen. He is old enough to know. I have no problem with him taking hormones because he is practically an adult.

People at 16 know what their gender is and/or sexuality. Honestly, I believe people can know as children, but that's just my opinion.

Let's not confuse the two by the way. Gender identity and sexual orientation are completely different and neither affects the other. The only similarities between gay and lesbian and transgendered is the intolerance the groups face from people who do not understand what homosexuality or transgenderism is.