Oh I do to...but DAMN it, the rest was just an observation. And I'm pretty pissed off that the media and HILLARY has made this such a huge thing.

Barack was saying what he saw...that people in small-town America were bitter. He might have chosen a wrong word or two, but DAMN SAM...he was right.

I listened to a West Coast icon today on talk radio...Lars Larson...who was talking to people about this. Lars, although I love listening to him, was dissing Barack - saying that it was all about race when he said what he said.

I so disagree...I think that when Barack said that, he was talking about small town America that couldn't grow...because the people didn't have the means. The small businessman couldn't succeed because the income of the area couldn't support him.

I still just don't see what is wrong with the words 'cling to".

"I think the words that upset people the most were "cling to." Coldfuse

I was born and raised in a small Idaho town and we were a very conservative people. I cannot see how this comment could be offensive, given the fact that it is a true statement. Government seems to have completely forgotten about common everyday people and many no longer think that voting for their own economic self interest will do them any good.

So they vote for the things that they think may be possible, like guns and the like. Why else would someone earning less than $35000 per year vote for a Republican? Republicans talk about family values and religious aspects of life in their campaignes, even if they actually vote against these things.

Dwight

I think 'cling' suggests weakness (as in 'clingy child') or desperation. I suppose if you were deeply and sincerely religious, you'd be annoyed at having that part of your life described merely as something you turned to because you were unemployed. Obama's trying to say that's not what he meant, but it did seem to be implied.

Obama still stands out, though. Clinton's dumb statement (running for cover) and McCain's dumb statements (Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!) are just dumb. Obama's dumb statement turns out to be something you can have an interesting discussion about.

'"He is still living in Iran," she said. "I guess it's all-out war for anybody but him.

"His followers can go to their death and he will still be in Iran."'
Rice on Sadr

This is so unlike Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and so on, who have been on the front lines during the past five years. Rice seems to be referring to a time when kings led their armies into battle - how many centuries ago was that? It's a remarkable comment, too, in a context where an increasingly-used US weapon - the Predator - is remote-controlled from Las Vegas.

Who is Rice aiming her comments at? Surely not Sadr himself. He has a huge popular following and the US (via its puppet government in Iraq) will have to talk to him sooner or later. She surely doesn't think her comments will persuade any of his followers to change sides, either.

Could her comments be for the home market? But Americans have had a series of most-dangerous-person-in-Iraq boogie men presented to them since the invasion, and are surely less and less impressed each time. These guys all came to prominence since the invasion, because of it. They're Bush's creations - and distractions from the hunt for... um... what's his name again? Osama?

What could be behind Rice's apparently pointless 'megaphone diplomacy'?

Here's a contender. Stupid statements by 'celebrities' would overwhelm this thread, and this site, but this one has a certain charmless 'elitism' don't you think?

"It's almost impossible to buy a house in central London unless you've got 10 million quid" Guy Ritchie, husband of Madonna, complaining that " the natives of England" are unable to buy because foreigners push prices up.(Bloody immigrants, they come over here, steal our jobs, take our housing... )

Ten million quid is British for £10 million (i.e $20 million)

Mr Ritchie and his wife own two main houses adjacent in central London,which act as one, one cost 7 million quid and one 6 million quid, and two smaller ones nearby at 900,000 quid each (for the staff, perhaps).

"I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal... ...I don't want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander-in-chief playing golf... ...I feel I owe it to the families to be in solidarity as best as I can with them." Noble Bush Gives Up Golf To Support Troops

Brings tears to your eyes, doesn't it?

"I've now been in 57 states (?), I think one left to go. One left to go, Alaska and Hawaii I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit but my staff would not justify it."

Did this include Michigan and Florida?

Hey, if he'd been asked to name all 57, he'd have spotted his mistake at some point.

Unless he started with 'ketchup'.

"Hold on one second, sweetie...' Obama, to a (grown up) reporter.

quote:

Originally posted by newnickname:
"Hold on one second, sweetie...' Obama, to a (grown up) reporter.

Please explain what's "dumb" about that

Oh, I'm supposed to get upset over being called "sweetie"? Wow! I've got to make up for lost angry time!

It's common where I live/work to hear "sweetie" and I don't know anyone who gets their knickers in a knot over it.

Sorry, I thought it was dumb. Most commentary on the Clinton/Obama fight is about how she's attractive to white trash while pointy-headed intellectuals favour him, but isn't Clinton also seen as at least symbolically important to many feminists? How is Obama going to win them over by calling women 'sweetie'? I'd never call a woman - other than, maybe, my six-year-old niece - 'sweetie'.

NNN, the tone was friendly or neutral and the response natural and unforced.

Obviously I can't speak of the US (but am encouraged by Rakuchild's post) but I suspect you don't live in the feminist world (nor did I once ! ), only the world you imagine feminists are in. There's a true feminist or two in this family. One has sponsored two bills in Parliament,one concerning equal treatment for women and the other improving the rights of single mothers against fathers who don't pay maintenance, she's also made a documentary film about domestic violence. They haven't burned a bra in their lives, and are constantly irritated by a 'political correctness' sensitivity to matters like this.It's used by politicians,and it's used by a certain class of women who are no more feminist than Queen Victoria but who think it's something to fuss about because they think it's the thing to say something against it.

She comes from a part of England where every woman, high, low or middling, is addressed by strangers as 'love' or 'sweetie' or some other endearment.It's not common in Cambridgeshire (a fact which she would put down to our being unfriendly and cold, were she not adjusted to local ways. Others are not so charitable). Around here, the most she'd expect is 'dear' ( which, in theory, she could be a bit offended by because it is usually said to someone who is at least middle aged, if not elderly !) The whole of the North of England, the whole of the Midlands, the whole of the West Country and the whole of Wales uses such endearments to every woman. It's only the 'snooty' home counties around London and the 'hostile' East Anglia where they aren't found.In short, most of England and Wales does it.

Londoners are equally addicted to 'endearments' like this. A woman entering any normal small shop e.g a greengrocer's or butcher's, or approaching a market stall, there is almost certain to be greeted with 'Yes, darling'(what on Earth would you make of that?) or 'Yes, love' and, of course, 'Yes, dear' if elderly. 'Yes, my darling' is also heard generally.

Tony Blair might well address a supporter or potential voter in such terms.Other MPs of his party, those brought up in such a community (that is, most of them), would certainly do so.

Hmm, yes - we have a friend from Devon who addresses everyone as "my lover", which causes some double takes.

"Sweetie" still sounds patronising to me, though - like "cutie pie" or something.

Is Obama's remark seen mainly as elitist or sexist? Is this about how he treats women or how he treats underlings (or reporters?!). I'm confused about the finer points of politics as usual. I understand his earlier "clinging to guns & religion' remark (as a supporter I personally have no problem with it ) that reinforced his portrayal as elitist. Thanks to Bush (the anti-science, anti-intellectual president) it's a lot easier to be an elitist today -- all you need is a brain. Meanwhile VP Cheney is Elitist with a capital E.

But with this latest peccadillo: If Barak had addressed a male reporter as 'pal' or 'bub' or some such, would offense still have been taken? To the same degree? Would that also be elitist?

A key question, to which I do not know the answer, might be: How does Obama treat his own staff & campaign workers in this regard?

I'm not sure what to think of the use of the word "sweetie." I don't think I'd find it patronising. I can't imagine anyone calling Hilary "sweetie" though. Not even Bill.
To me, the fact that Obama used it, is quite charming, but I can't articulate why.
I do agree with what Fred says about feminists.
We have moved on a long way from the days of the hard line feminist movement.
Actually, I think those that fought for women's rights decades ago, have ensured to a large degree, that my generation, and subsequent ones, don't have to label themselves as feminists. We are sure of our equality to men, and generally we feel secure in the work place, and in society.
Terms like "darling" and "honey" really don't bother me.
I had forgotten about the endearment, "my lover," NNN. I can imagine an older woman using that term. I can't see a man using it in the UK.
Where I come from, in the Home Counties,( where we are fightfully snooty ) people use "darling" a lot, but more as an affectation. Older people use "duck," and I know from my parents, the Scots say "hen." Nobody finds any of these terms offensive.

I found the comment mildly offensive, but after reading the posts of Raku and Fred, I am starting to wonder if I am being a bit too politically correct.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Professor:

If Barak had addressed a male reporter as 'pal' or 'bub' or some such, would offense still have been taken? /QUOTE]

Well, I get called 'young man' quite a lot (either flattering or sarcastic at 61? Neither, it's friendly ) and other things too: 'squire', 'mate',' 'pal' (though not often: it tends to have unstated aggressive overtones here, as well as friendly ones) as well as 'dear','darling','little fella' and many others. I just love it when I'm 'patronised'(if that's what I'm to understand it has been all along, by men and women like that, many of them of the working classes, the horror of it ! )

PS 'My lover'sounds to me like a mishearing of the Devon accent. It's actually 'my love', said with that heavy West Country burr and the way in which final 'e' is stressed, so it sounds a bit like '-er'.

And a PPS for dg. Isn't 'darling' in the Home Counties pronounced 'daHRling' and used between women of supposed equal status?

I suppose "sweetie" was a politically incorrect faux pas under the circumstances, though it's pretty common around here. I hear it from waitresses in moderately priced restaurants; maybe they're aiming for a tip, but I don't mind it a bit!

quote:

Originally posted by FredPuli:
'squire', 'mate',' 'pal' (though not often: it tends to have unstated aggressive overtones here, as well as friendly ones)

Yes it does, and there's the subtlety of it all. It all depends on geographically where it's used, the person using it, the context, as well as their tone of voice. I think we are probably making too much of Obama's use of the word, and over analysing it. But this is an interesting discussion.
I can hear a man in England saying, "Look Pal,..." and it becomes threatening. But if he said, "Look, Gov'" or "Boss," he's immediately taking a more deferential stance.
You're only 61, Fred? Frank can call you a whipper snapper!

quote:

And a PPS for dg. Isn't 'darling' in the Home Counties pronounced 'daHRling' and used between women of supposed equal status?

Absolutely. My friends here tease me about my use of the word in that way all the time. They don't just use my name now, but they say "------, DaHRling"