I don't know if you've noticed, but one Presidential candidate,John McCain, has actually come up with a short term solution to our high gasoline problems.
McCain wants us to immediately resume drilling offshore California ,the Gulf Coast states and our Eastern Seaboard .
This would bring us more oil and gasoline in short order.
Obama ,however is afraid of offending the treehuggers,so he talks of solar panels and wind farms and other blue sky b.s., which won't put one gallon of gasoline in any one's car...not even the treehuggers.
Mc Cain is the only one who's offering a gasoline solution NOW.
Obam's solutions won't help us for at least another ten years... if that.
Tell that to your neighbor who can't even afford to fill up his tank anymore,if he wants to feed his kids,too.
If you think $4.50 a gallon is bad...you ain't seen nothin' yet.
"McCain wants us to immediately resume drilling offshore California ,the Gulf Coast states and our Eastern Seaboard .
This would bring us more oil and gasoline in short order."
Do you think that they just dig a hole and gasoline squirts out? It's not quite that simple, Hippo. Politicians who propose ideas like this as a short term solution depend on people like you who just don't understand how much is involved in a) drilling for oil and b) converting that oil to gasoline. It's a bit more complicated than that, but you are expecting someone to make you a hamburger when the wheat hasn't been planted nor the calf born.
Posts: 17241 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
We should have been doing this a long time ago. Perhaps we should do it now so we son't be fussing about this in ten years; we can become independent of foreign oil.
But DG is right; we cannot hope to ramp up the supply immediately. However, if OPEC members believe we are serious about developing our own resources further, there may be a pricing influence.
Changes in how oil futures are traded may have an immediate impact on gasoline prices. Restrictive measures, such as increasing the margin requirements, may help to bring prices to a reasonable level.
Posts: 7903 | Location: in the backwoods of North Carolina | Registered: 06-07-02
I wonder if, as whale populations decreased, there were those who saw an answer in more and more whaling boats, scoffing at any new-fangled replacements for whale oil?
"Great noise is made by many of the newspapers and thousands of the traders in the country about Lard oil, Chemical Oil, Camphene Oil, and a half dozen other luminous humbugs; and it has been confidently predicted by more than one astute prophet that the Sperm Oil trade would soon come to an end, and the whales be left in undisturbed possession of their abode . . . it has even been said, horribile dictu, that Nantucket must soon be reduced from its present elevated position among the isles of the sea and the habitations of the earth, to a poor, miserable spot capable only of nourishing sand-lice and horse-shoes, and compelled to live on its accumulated stock of Sperm Oil and candles! But let not our envious, and - in view of the Lard Oil mania - we had well nigh said, hog-gish opponents, indulge themselves in any such dreams."www.boston.com
I thought Americans were supposed to be stand-on-your-own-two-feet, independent types. What's all this whining about what the government should be doing?
It was pointed out on another thread that the best-selling US car is a category larger than the best-selling Canadian car, despite the similarity in driving conditions, and way bigger than the average European car.
If people were looking for immediate relief, they might consider buying something less thirsty to drive. I know it's not possible for some, but many might also be able to - eek - get out of the car and walk to the store, now and then.
Drilling for more oil isn't a short-term solution, as explained above. It isn't a long-term one either - Pickens: Oil production has peaked . It's at the other end (at consumption) or elsewhere (alternative energy sources) that real answers lie.
Meanwhile, while the unknowing make noise about solving today's problems with solutions that wouldn't take effect for years, Honda has started selling (in a very limited way) a hydrogen fuel cell car whose by-product is...water. (Before someone starts yelling about where we're going to get all this hydrogen, let me state that hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.)
The US is looking for bigger buckets while the rest of the world is fixing the roof.
Posts: 17241 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
Now that the damages have been done in Irak. Over 2000 Us death, trillions of dollars in debt. And since Irak has more oil than Saoudi Arabia, why don't Bush make 'let say, a 20 years contract with them so they would provide us with free or cheap fuel. Nope he wants to dig holes all around the Us east coast and the gulf of Mexico. It will take years before we see the price of gaz going down. Thanx George , you didn't figure Irak in your plans after all.
Posts: 6238 | Location: u.s.a, south Florida | Registered: 06-03-02
A 2004 study by the government's Energy Information Administration (EIA) found that drilling in ANWR would trim the price of gas by 3.5 cents a gallon by 2027. (If oil prices continue to skyrocket, the savings would be greater, but not by much.) Opening up offshore areas to oil exploration — currently all coastal areas save a section of the Gulf of Mexico are off-limits, thanks to a Congressional ban enacted in 1982 and supplemented by an executive order from the first President Bush — might cut the price of gas by 3 to 4 cents a gallon at most, according to the Natural Resources Defense Council. And the relief at the pump, such as it is, wouldn't be immediate — it would take several years, at least, for the oil to begin to flow, which is time enough for increased demand from China, India and the rest of the world to outpace those relatively meager savings. "Right now the price of oil is set on the global market," says Kevin Lindemer, executive managing director of the energy markets group for the research firm Global Insight. President Bush's move "would not have an impact."
The reason is simple: the U.S. has an estimated 3% of global petroleum reserves, but consumes 24% of the world's oil. Offshore territories and public lands like ANWR that don't allow drilling may contain up to 75 billion barrels of oil, according to the EIA. That may sound like a lot, but it's not enough to make a significant difference in a world where global oil demand is expected to rise 30% by 2030, to nearly 120 million barrels a day. At best, greatly expanding domestic drilling might eventually lower the proportion of oil the U.S. imports — currently about 60% of its total supply — but petroleum is a global commodity, and the world market would soak up any additional American production. "This is a drop in the bucket," says Gernot Wagner, an economist with the Environmental Defense Fund.
And then there is this -
Even as Democrats and Republicans squabble over a relatively small amount of petroleum, we're missing out on the opportunity to truly break our addiction to crude. This week the Senate again failed to renew the tax credit for renewable energies like solar and wind; the credit, which expires at the end of the year, is key to the healthy growth of low-carbon alternatives. Without it, "the industry will simply stop," says Santiago Seage, CEO of the Spanish company Abengoa Solar. With energy demand skyrocketing, we'll need more oil, and alternatives like solar, and demand-side measures like toughened auto fuel efficiency standards, or tax incentives for Americans to purchase less wasteful cars. We'll have to include action on global warming, like the recently defeated Warner-Lieberman carbon cap and trade bill. A study by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found that under the bill, U.S. petroleum consumption would drop by nearly half by 2030 — savings far in excess of the amount of oil we could ever pull from Alaska or the coasts. "We can't drill our way out of this and we can't conserve our way out either," says Bullock. "We need both." Fair enough. But the sad truth is that neither drilling nor conservation will have an immediate effect on rising gas prices, even if they do have an immediate impact on the presidential race.
Posts: 17241 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
North Sea oil and gas have been essential to the economies of the UK and Norway since the 1970s. It is only in recent years that the UK has been a net importer of oil, after decades of being a net exporter. Norway has, even now, a far higher GDP per head than the US has (2007 estimate : US 46,000 USD, Norway 55,000 USD) a fact largely explained by her having North Sea oil and gas.
In 1999,Britain alone was taking 4.5 million barrels a day from her fields. Production has now declined to 2.9 million barrels but there are more reserves out there which are exploitable, as the need arises and the market demands.
Incidentally, what is the problem,if any, with exploiting nuclear power in the US? France has no oil, North Sea or otherwise.She ceased coalmining altogether in 2004. She is dependent on nuclear power for her electricity production.
Damn fools on Long Island cited a lack of emergency evacuation route. Funny thing was at least half of those fools did not know that Long Island already had an operational nuclear reactor about 10 miles south of Shoreham.
The Brookhaven National Laboratory actually built two nuclear reactors to supply the sprawling facility with electricity. The first one was replaced by the second one that is now shut down as well.
Posts: 3654 | Location: Long Island, New York USA | Registered: 06-03-02
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DorianGreyed: "McCain wants us to immediately resume drilling offshore California ,the Gulf Coast states and our Eastern Seaboard .
This would bring us more oil and gasoline in short order."
Do you think that they just dig a hole and gasoline squirts out? It's not quite that simple, Hippo. Politicians who propose ideas like this as a short term solution depend on people like you who just don't understand how much is involved in a) drilling for oil and b) converting that oil to gasoline.
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Hi Dor:
It just so happens that I spent over 20 years working for the world's largest manufacturer of oilfield drilling instrumentation.
I believe I might possibly know a lttle more about drilling for oil than you do.
Something seems grossly amiss in the Energy Information Administration's figures that drilling in ANWR would only result in a few cents savings on a gallon of gasoline. It defies economic logic.
One of the key Cold War strategic moves of the Reagan administration was to suppress the price of oil (every dollar of rise or fall in the per barrel cost of crude affected the Soviet Union by about $1 billion). We cozied up to Saudi Arabia by providing weapons, and the Saudis in turn increased production. The price of oil plummeted and the Soviets basically ran out of money.
Posts: 7903 | Location: in the backwoods of North Carolina | Registered: 06-07-02
Then you need to demonstrate that knowledge, rather than espouse claims that are so easily disproven. Sorry, Hippo, but your claims (and bush's and McCain's) that gas prices will be eased by drilling are simply fantasy and/or wishful thinking. The numbers just don't support the claims.
Posts: 17241 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
One key point: "The result of this is that the oil market is one where small changes to the supply or demand curve cause large changes to the clearing price."
Posts: 7903 | Location: in the backwoods of North Carolina | Registered: 06-07-02
As pointed out about, the change resulting from China's increasing demand (and India's) will not be small, and I think it is a safe bet that the increased demand isn't going to lower prices.
I'm sorry, but wishful thinking and cherry-picking experts isn't going to change the reality or the numbers. Adding a very very small percent to the world's supply of a product whose demand is rapidly increasing just isn't going to change thing much. That's both Econ 101 and Common Sense 101.
Posts: 17241 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
Is the demand growing rapidly? Is the supply of a finite commodity able to keep pace? Where should we seek a solution? Let's ask the oil companies and the people who sell them their equipmant and own their stock. Yeah, that makes sense.
Originally posted by DorianGreyed: As pointed out about, the change resulting from China's increasing demand (and India's) will not be small, and I think it is a safe bet that the increased demand isn't going to lower prices.
I'm sorry, but wishful thinking and cherry-picking experts isn't going to change the reality or the numbers. Adding a very very small percent to the world's supply of a product whose demand is rapidly increasing just isn't going to change thing much. That's both Econ 101 and Common Sense 101.
I don't know if the "Cherry-picking" comment is in response to my link or not. I can assure you that the link was not cherry-picked. It was, however, picked because it seemed to put the sound economics in sensible perspective.
And I agree with most of what you have said, with the exception that I have serious doubts as to the accuracy of the EIA's findings (I am not alone in this). We cannot reduce prices in the short-run if we are trying to meet increasing demand with product that requires exploration and is still in the ground!
In this circumstance, prices may be reduced by influencing large producer nations (such as Saudi Arabia) to increase production. And just why would they want to do this? That is the $64,000 question.
The other influence - maybe you all think I am foolish for even mentioning it, as nobody else cares to discuss it - is to curtail the speculation market. That is the little market that determines the price of oil futures, which is what we are often talking about when quoting per barrel prices. It is a market that was once closed to those in the oil industry that has now gone bonkers.
Posts: 7903 | Location: in the backwoods of North Carolina | Registered: 06-07-02
"The other influence - maybe you all think I am foolish for even mentioning it, as nobody else cares to discuss it - is to curtail the speculation market."
But Fuse, you're talking about the Holy Grail of the Right, the FREE MARKET!!! Careful now, or some will call you a socialist or even (Gasp!) a Communist! You may even have to sit with Frank, NNN and me at the annual AP BBQ. (Don't forget, you're cooking this year, and Renee is bringing fresh roadkill, courtesy the flooding.)
Posts: 17241 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
It will take years before we see the price of gaz going down. Thanx George , you didn't figure Irak in your plans after all.
