Hi Gang:

After we pull out of iraq [and we will eventually]...

what will happen in Iraq???

Will all be sweetness and light...

or will the spit hit the fan...

will the Sunnis and the Shias wipe each other out and leave the country to the Kurds???

What think you ,oh great pronosticators of the future???

And what will happen to our oil supply from that region...

and what will happen to already sky rocketing gasoline prices here in the U.S.???

Is it time for us all to go out and buy a bike??>

What now ,oh wise ones ???

hippolips

I'm not a great prognosticator, nor a wise one, but those questions are easy:

No, it will not be all sweetness and light.

Everything is already hitting the fan.

No, the Sunnis and Shias will not wipe one another out.

Oil is going to run out, whatever happens in Iraq. Prices will increase over the next couple of decades anyway.

Now isn't the time to buy a bike - you'd have gotten a better deal during winter.

These same questions were posed about Vietnam back in the 70's, prior to our withdrawl.

The bottom line is that it is not our concern. The politics of their country is their own country's business. Whatever happens, happens.

"After we pull out, what then", you ask? Maybe then we can put some of those wasted $Billions$ back into the welfare of our own country. Invest it in the return of businesses in America, instead of overseas. Maybe do something about improving our health care system, our education system, the National deficit, etc., etc. You can probably think of a million other better uses for all of those wasted resources than trying to Police the whole Middle East.

As for the oil running out in Iraq- that's not likely to happen for a very long time. Which is also not our business. It doesn't belong to whomever has the biggest Guns, or the most power. It belongs to Iraq.

Well, yeah, oil will never actually run out; it will just become too expensive. But it's going to happen pretty soon.

'Oil will not just "run out" because all oil production follows a bell curve. This is true whether we're talking about an individual field, a country, or on the planet as a whole.

Oil is increasingly plentiful on the upslope of the bell curve, increasingly scarce and expensive on the down slope. The peak of the curve coincides with the point at which the endowment of oil has been 50 percent depleted. Once the peak is passed, oil production begins to go down while cost begins to go up.

In practical and considerably oversimplified terms, this means that if 2005 was the year of global Peak Oil, worldwide oil production in the year 2030 will be the same as it was in 1980. However, the world’s population in 2030 will be both much larger (approximately twice) and much more industrialized (oil-dependent) than it was in 1980. Consequently, worldwide demand for oil will outpace worldwide production of oil by a significant margin. As a result, the price will skyrocket, oil-dependant economies will crumble, and resource wars will explode.'
www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

Hi Gang:

Sounds like all of you soccer moms had better get ready to dump your huge,gas guzzling SUV's ...

and get a horse and buggy...

but I'd hate to think what all that horse pucky is going to do to the environment.

Phew !!!

hippolips

P.S. But one consolation...you won't
have to wait in those long gas lines like we did last oil crisis.

quote:

Originally posted by hippolips:
Hi Gang:

Sounds like all of you soccer moms had better get ready to dump your huge,gas guzzling SUV's ...

and get a horse and buggy...

C'mon, Lips, how are you expecting they'll park a horse and buggy? Have you seen the trouble they cause on the 'school run'?

[Forgot: Americans may not have a 'school run'. It's when the mums (or the au pairs) drive their personal tanks,'Chelsea Tractors', contents one driver and one kid, to school. They then amuse us all by obstructing everyone around the school by insisting on dropping the little darling outside the school gates and 'parking'(?) to do it.Anyhow, you get the idea ]

Hippolips, are we soccer mums or are we great prognosticators? Who are you talking to?

And don't soccer mums drive (relatively green) minivans full-to-bursting with kids, anyway? It's inadequate men who drive the huge gas-guzzling SUV's solo.

Let's get our stereotypes straightened out here.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by newnickname:
Hippolips, are we soccer mums or are we great prognosticators? Who are you talking to?

And don't soccer mums drive (relatively green) minivans full-to-bursting with kids, anyway? It's inadequate men who drive the huge gas-guzzling SUV's solo.

______________________________________________

Hi NN:

I don't know how it is in Canada,but in California I see plenty of women driving huge SUV's and Hummers...

solo...

and most of them drive as if it is their mission to drive every male driver into the nearest ditch or concrete barrier...

they drive as aggressively as tank commanders.

But that may just be in California.

hippolips

quote:

And don't soccer mums drive (relatively green) minivans full-to-bursting with kids, anyway? It's inadequate men who drive the huge gas-guzzling SUV's solo.

Let's get our stereotypes straightened out here.

Absolutely preposterous. What a ridiculous statement to make.

quote:

Originally posted by Scotty:
[QUOTE]And don't soccer mums drive (relatively green) minivans full-to-bursting with kids, anyway? It's inadequate men who drive the huge gas-guzzling SUV's solo.

Let's get our stereotypes straightened out here.

Hmm. So , Scotty, what kind of man does drive an SUV? Some man who is on his way to his farm, perhaps? He must have some reason to drive an off -road, four- wheel drive vehicle.It can't be because it has some practical use in a town, can it?

'For example, in the chapter entitled "Reptilian Dreams" Bradsher quotes the findings of auto industry market researchers who determined that typical SUV drivers


"tend to be people who are insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors or communities."'
www.elmerfudd.us

quote:

"tend to be people who are insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors or communities."'
www.elmerfudd.us

A
Of course you believe this BS.
I've got a bridge to sell you, pal.
Stupidity at its best.

quote:

Hmm. So , Scotty, what kind of man does drive an SUV? Some man who is on his way to his farm, perhaps? He must have some reason to drive an off -road, four- wheel drive vehicle.It can't be because it has some practical use in a town, can it?

Most of the SUV's driven by people that I know are not 4-wheel drive off the road vehicles.
People drive them for the room they provide to carry things, and they like the vehicle.
SUV's are a very popular vehicle in this Country, Fred.
Most of the people that I know, that drive SUV's are very successful people, so NNN'S, statement is just plain silly. It sounds like it comes from jealous people that may not be able to afford an SUV. Actually laughable.

I thought SUV's were, by definition, four-wheel-drive. I wonder if we're thinking about the same thing.

'SUV - Acronym that stands for Sport Utility Vehicle. A good example of an SUV would be a Ford Explorer, Chevrolet Blazer, Dodge Durango, or a Toyota 4Runner' www.americascarshow.com

'SUV (a high-performance four-wheel drive car built on a truck chassis)' wordnet.princeton.edu

If it's not four-wheel-drive, it's just a boxy station-wagon, isn't it? Or what they call a "Sport Cute Vehicle" (CR-V, Rav-4). But those are cars.

I've never bought that "I need it for the room" idea. Minivans have just as much room (if not more), better handling and stopping abilities, better safety records and better gas-mileage. I guess minivans are just not as good at bolstering a limp male ego.

I'm not sure how these successful people Scotty knows became successful. You have to be pretty gullible to pay so much over the odds for a truck which has been cleverly upholstered and given a rear seat.

Ford and GM couldn't believe their luck when the SUV fad took off; they throw together a truck on an old ladder chassis with cart spring suspension, a vehicle that lies outside the legal need to develop proper safety and fuel consumption attributes, and they can sell it at prestige car prices!

I'm not jealous. I've driven an Explorer; it's fun as a novelty for a while, playing at lorry drivers, but I wouldn't want one of my own.

I'll stick to my bicycle and my tree-hugging.

quote:

I've never bought that "I need it for the room" idea. Minivans have just as much room (if not more), better handling and stopping abilities, better safety records and better gas-mileage. I guess minivans are just not as good at bolstering a limp male ego.

I'm not sure how these successful people Scotty knows became successful. You have to be pretty gullible to pay so much over the odds for a truck which has been cleverly upholstered and given a rear seat.

Ford and GM couldn't believe their luck when the SUV fad took off; they throw together a truck on an old ladder chassis with cart spring suspension, a vehicle that lies outside the legal need to develop proper safety and fuel consumption attributes, and they can sell it at prestige car prices!

I'm not jealous. I've driven an Explorer; it's fun as a novelty for a while, playing at lorry drivers, but I wouldn't want one of my own

First off, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else "buys" because it really is none of your business why anyone who wants a suv, buys it.
I have owned three Ford Explorers and none of them have been 4 wheel drives. They ride very well.

Some of the people I know got successful by getting through Medical school, others by completing law school, and others by completing MBA's and such, and all of them love their suv's.

Whatever you wish to drive is your business, and what I wish to drive is mine.

quote:

What's wrong with Sport Utility Vehicles.

Nothing, absolutely nothing.



I've never bought that "I need it for the room" idea. Minivans have just as much room (if not more), better handling and stopping abilities, better safety records and better gas-mileage. I guess minivans are just not as good at bolstering a limp male ego.

I have driven both, and except for the gas mileage, I can tell you that this is bull.
Limp male ego..........what a joke.
Just shows your ignorance.

quote:

Whatever you wish to drive is your business, and what I wish to drive is mine.

From the link: 'The National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration (NHTSA) compiled a list of all passenger vehicles [1] based on their "aggressivity" in 1996 crash statistics. Aggressivity was essentially a measure of how likely a vehicle is to fatally injure the drivers of other vehicles on the road. Every vehicle in the top 20 of the list was an LTV [light truck vehicle]. When the vehicles were categorized, the most aggressive cars (the "Large Car" group) ranked below the least aggressive LTVs ("Minivans"). In other words, there was no overlap between the aggressivity of cars and LTVs - all categories of LTVs were clearly and significantly more lethal in crashes.

Want more? For every head-on collision between an SUV and a car, the driver of the car is 6 times more likely to die. For a van-car collision, this ratio is about 5:1, and for pickup truck-car collisions it's about 3:1. This led the NHTSA to conclude

Clearly, the fatality toll in car-LTV frontal crashes is disproportionately shouldered by the drivers of passenger cars.
Even more telling are the statistics for when one vehicle crashes into the side of the other. All vehicles are especially vulnerable to such side-impact crashes. For a car-car collision (to the driver's side), the driver of the struck car is 6.6 times more likely to die than the driver of the striking car. But when the striking vehicle is an SUV, that ratio rises to 30:1. A 1999 University of Michigan study frequently quoted in the literature [2] concluded that in 1996 alone, 2000 people died in traffic accidents for no other reason than that the vehicle which struck them was an SUV, light truck, or minivan rather than another car.'

The accident statistics show that someone's choosing to drive an SUV is very much the business of other road users. There are also statistics on how relatively ineffective SUV's brakes are. The poor handling of SUV's is an inevitable consequence of their weight and high centre of gravity. These are facts.

Scotty, why didn't you say you were an SUV driver? We were talking about stereotypes and 'typical' drivers. The accident statistics are just as impersonal. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with your own ego or road manners.

I see that there are two-wheel drive SUV's, sorry: Explorer Tips Onto Two Wheels During Rollover Test

[QUOTE]Originally posted by newnickname

Want more? For every head-on collision between an SUV and a car, the driver of the car is 6 times more likely to die. For a van-car collision, this ratio is about 5:1, and for pickup truck-car collisions it's about 3:1. This led the NHTSA to conclude

Clearly, the fatality toll in car-LTV frontal crashes is disproportionately shouldered by the drivers of passenger cars.

________________________________________________

Hi NN:

So I guess the only only answer is for us all to buy a tank to drive.

What's the gas mileage for a tank?????

hippolips

quote:

Hmm. So , Scotty, what kind of man does drive an SUV? Some man who is on his way to his farm, perhaps? He must have some reason to drive an off -road, four- wheel drive vehicle. It can't be because it has some practical use in a town, can it?

I drive an SUV Fred. I bought a Toyota 4Runner last summer. (Sport Edition that comes standard with a V-8 )

To be perfectly honest I never desired or wanted an SUV. I have driven a full sized Chevy van since 2000 (200 HP V-6) and loved it. It fit most of my needs very adequately. I removed the rear seat for extra room to haul “stuff”. I do most all my home construction projects and landscaping. Putting full sized 4’ x 8’ plywood, bags of mulch, large shrubs and the like inside it is a snap. It is also a great vehicle to take on camping trips. I can carry loads of gear, and if the weather turns bad we can go inside and watch a movie or some television .

I also keep tool boxes, fishing gear, golf clubs, sporting gear, and much more in there. It had the interior space that no SUV could even come close to. Given my lifestyle I do need all the cargo room I can get, and the SUVs all lack in that department. I truly do “need the room”.

The reason I bought the 4Runner was while I loved the van, it struggled hauling heavy loads. Hauling my boat Upstate New York was a chore. Going up and down the mountains put great strain on it. (It chewed up brake pads and a transmission ) The 4Runner has a much better towing capacity and towing the 5,000 plus pound boat is easy, even up and down mountains. You want to talk about gas mileage; nothing comes close to the amount of fuel a boat sucks down .

I did get the opportunity to take the 4Runner off road last summer in the mountains and it is a serious “off road” vehicle. Uneven terrain and creeks are no match for it. I will take it out to the Midwest this summer and really put it to the test on some back farm country.

The 4Runner has also allowed me to explore more surf fishing territory that I have previously. It handles very well on loose sandy beaches, and even the very rocky ones .

It lacks the practical uses around town that the van has,(for me) but good thing I kept the van for just such things. I did consider a pick up truck and a Nissan Armada prior to settling on the 4Runner. The ride was too rough in a pick up, and the salesman would not accept my offer on a new “left over” 2005 Armada.

I still don’t call the 4Runner a “truck” as it rides like a car, so I call it a “car”. I am slowly getting used to the lack of interior capacity I have grown accustomed to. I just have to carry what I think I might need instead of everything “just in case”. I don’t “love” the 4Runner yet, but I like it.

NNN, different lifestyles have different needs, I find it as simple as that when it comes to vehicles. I do also have a motorcycle that I adore, but it is pretty much useless for towing the boat . I did make up a rack so I can carry my golf clubs on it though. The looks I get on the road hauling my golf clubs are priceless.

About the accidents NNN, that is another reason I like to drive a full sized vehicle. I am a very careful and considerate driver, but I prefer to have the upper hand in the event of an accident. I was in Atlanta this week and rented a PT Cruiser and did feel vulnerable to a degree, but that is why I choose not to own such a vehicle.

Scotty, I have no college degree but I do have a wonderful wife who does and is very successful at her job. We save our money and having no children makes affording an SUV and other things in life much easier. (I do pretty well in my endeavors too )