A 'straight-A's' Illinois High School Student has been charged with 2 counts of Disorderly Conduct and had his application to the Marines denied, after writing a Creative Writing essay.
What do you think? Were they justified in their actions, based on the recent Virginia shooting, or is it a clear Constitutional violation?
As for me, I'm now positive that the First Amendment has gone completely up in smoke, when they can do something like this to a kid for merely writing a paper.
I don't know what you've experienced that makes you so passionate about protecting the constitution; but I can't make a judgement on this one case based on the snippet of information available to the general public, especially since it involves a high school student.
Students do not, the Court tells us in Tinker vs. Des Moines, "shed their constitutional rights when they enter the schoolhouse door." But it is also the case that school administrators have a far greater ability to restrict the speech of their students than the government has to restrict the speech of the general public. Student speech cases require a balancing of the legitimate educational objectives and need for school discipline of administrators against the First Amendment values served by extending speech rights of students. In Tinker, perhaps the best known of the Court's student speech cases, the Court found that the First Amendment protected the right of high school students to wear black armbands in a public high school, as a form of protest against the Viet Nam War. The Court ruled that this symbolic speech--"closely akin to pure speech"--could only be prohibited by school administrators if they could show that it would cause a substantial disruption of the school's educational mission.
Originally posted by frankvan: I don't know what you've experienced that makes you so passionate about protecting the constitution
I've experienced more than my fair share of injustice, frank. And, have seen injustice committed against others. Far too much. As far as I'm concerned, the Constitution represents the very embodiment of Justice. It is the founding legal document upon which this country was based. I might even say it should be adopted as Biblical dogma, if that didn't violate seperation of church and state.
I believe in it wholeheartedly, and wish that others were every bit as passionate in adhering to it. Think of how much better off the world would be if everyone shared this belief. Not under pretense, as many people do, but absolutely and sincerely.
The idea of Freedom is reborn with every generation. But, only one generation ever created the U.S. Constitution. If we don't defend it, who will? The guy who thinks of it as "just a damn piece of paper"? I think not.
The guy might be a little weird, but it's the teacher who has used bad judgement. With guidelines such as she gave that class, they could have filled every page with nothing but profanity, I mean nothing but, just words, no sentences, and got a pass. "No judgment" means no judgement, the marker cannot even say the work is good or bad. I've taken classes like that, and at year end you get either a pass or a fail, based on your attendance and participtaion.
So this student perhaps chose to perhaps act out or feign the mindset of someone that his history shows that he clearly is not. That action is perfectly legitimate in fiction-writing. Do we bust Shakespeare for depicting Iago's mind?
I predict they will drop it. I hope they drop that teacher, too. Because after giving such an assignment, she must have taken it to the principal. Who else would have?
Posts: 6369 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
The charges are absurd; the teacher should have guessed that someone would write something objectional by current community standards, and issued a caveat. Even if the matter was taken out of the teacher's hands, the teacher should have anticipated potential problems with such an open assignment.
It is a sad state of affairs, that, at a time when the military is taking some less-than-desirable enlistees, someone with this young man's potential and desires should be treated this way.
It will be interesting to see just how this decision affects the next school board election.
The Marines don't look too good in this either, but that may be because of the chain of command, which often leads up to an empty suit.
Posts: 17233 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
Originally posted by babthrower: Well, if the decision goes against him, it just might save his life. That would be better than dying 'with honor' in a pointless war.
Good Point! That's looking on the bright side!
Better to possibly go to county lock-up than to War. Which is the lesser of two evils?
" But it is also the case that school administrators have a far greater ability to restrict the speech of their students than the government has to restrict the speech of the general public
I'd hate to have the bunch of you "student exonerators" on the jury. My experience with high-school students would want me to listen to a little more evidence than we've seen so far. We have the student's account of what the teacher's instructions were. Could we please hear some corroboration from some of the rest of the class? What has the teacher herself had to say? I haven't seen anyone's testimony, other than the student and his lawyer. Are they the only ones the media reps interviewed? Did the teacher panic when she saw something more than we have been permitted to see? He could easily have bragged of having weapons in his locker, the principal may have checked and found something lethal, other students in the class might have reported some serious threats, etc.
Of course Scotty would never find fault with any future, present, or past marine, so obviously shouldn't survive a pre-emptive challenge to serve on this particular jury. And Valor already thinks Don Imus and that other fired schoolteacher represent a constitutional threat. But I would expect a little less tendency to jump to conclusions on flimsy evidence from Babs and Dorian. If homeland security ever charges either of you with some subversive act, you'd better hope you get someone more like me on the jury, before you're shipped off to Gitmo.
Better to possibly go to county lock-up than to War. Which is the lesser of two evils?
Well, what could we have expected but this from someone so gung ho! He would rather see this young man die in a 'pointless' war than have him go to county lockup for as many as 30 days, and pay a $1,500 fine. Gosh, he's valiant! With such an attitude I'm amazed he came home at all from VietNam. Of course we only have his say-so that he was there. Hmmm... I have heard that the fiercest fighting ever done in World War II was done in the Legion beer parlors afterwards ....
Oh, all right, Frank!!! You're so strict!!! I thought that the kid's lawyer wouldn't say things like
quote:
The teacher told students: “Be creative; there will be no judgment and no censorship,”
if they could easily be refuted. But I know I'm just a naive innocent in these matters.
So okay, I'll amend what I said with an "...IF she said what the law guy said she said..."
Posts: 6369 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
The essay in question, with some explanation by the student:
Editor's note: Contains explicit content, which has been slightly edited for obscene language.
Blood sex and Booze. Drugs Drugs Drugs are fun. Stab, Stab, Stab, S…t…a…b…, poke. "So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone…, then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did." Umm, yeah, what to wright about…… I'm leaving to join the Marines and I really don't give a F... about my academics, so why does the only class that's complete Bull ****, happen to be the only required class…enough said. The model citizen would stay around to vote in new board member to change the 4 years of English policy, but no one really stays around to vote for that kind of local crap, so whoever gets there name on the Ballet with a pretty face gets to do what the F... ever they want with local ordinance. A person is smart, but people are dumb selfish animals. We can't make rules for ourselves so we vote others to do it for us, but we can't even do that right, I meen seriously, Bush for President? And our other option was John Kerry who claimed to parktake in Vietnam Special Forces missions that haven't been declassified…. F...... Bull ****. So Power Flower Super Mario. Pudge, hook, rot, dismember "Fresh Meat." Mostly new/young teachers are laid back, and cooperative with students as feedback and input into the curriculum and atmosphere. My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant. If CG was a private catholic school, I could understand, but *** is her problem. And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandedly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don't be surprised on inspiring the first cg shooting.
Authors Note: This production of writing is done in the most accurate manner I can depict of the original writing. Grammar and spelling mistakes are included at the best accuracy possible. The first phrase in questions is in fact a Green Day song. The second reference to drugs is in relation to the schools history of drug problems. I am personally clean of all controlled substances. The statement in quotes is done so as a non personal statement as I would have done in reference to a character for a story. The reference to the gun P90 is from a video game, combined with a reference to necrophilia as a comment regarding a seriously messed up situation. A situation such as the rape of villagers during a raid by U.S. troops in Vietnam. I really do not care too much about by continuing academia as in relation to grades. I do however believe on continuing my personal education, and I am actually still working for my classes. My views on the graduation requirements explain themselves. The reference to Mario and Pudge( a DOTA character) are completely random as is this essay. The reference to a person being smart and people being dumb is based on a quote from "Men in Black." I generally do believe the public opinion is best. The rest of the essay is rather self explanatory, the main statement in question I have already released a comment online about. I request that all information I have released is read together, and nothing given separately or as an excerpt as the administration has seen fit to do.
On an additional note, I have completed the MEPS (Military Entry Processing Station) examinations, and yes a psychiatric evaluation is included in the process. If I'm qualified to defend the country, I believe I'm qualified to attend school.
There isn't anything in the essay that millions and millions of teens can't see on dvd from the neighborhood video rental place. As for the spelling and grammar errors, they are in keeping with who the character is. With some lip service to Frank's caveats, that is, if the teacher said what she is quoted as saying, the kid did nothing but imagine and write what he thought might be the stream of consciousness of someone who might blow his/her cool.
Seems to me the teacher might have been personally offended and used the paranoia as an excuse. That's even worse judgment on her part!
I'm not saying the kid's judgment was great. But we can expect less good judgment from a student than we can expect from a teacher.
But it didn't warrant the over-reaction which could destroy the kid's career.
Posts: 6369 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
A second disorderly count accuses Lee of alarming first year teacher Nora Capron by writing that "as a teacher, don't be surprised on [sic] inspiring the first CG shooting,'' an apparent reference to Cary-Grove High. Lee said Thursday he was "completely shocked'' to be arrested Tuesday for his essay, especially because written instructions told kids not to "censor'' what they wrote. "In creative writing, you're told to exaggerate,'' said Lee. "It was supposed to be just junk. . . . "There definitely is violent content, but they're taking it out of context and making it something it isn't.'' "I have no intention of harming anyone,'' said Lee, who has been transferred to an alternative school setting. "I miss school.'' Lee's father, Albert Lee, who emigrated from China 32 years ago, said his son has a clean academic and police record. He, too, insisted his son's essay was not threatening but authorities "drew a conclusion before the investigation. They didn't want to do the investigation.'' However, the father would not comment on whether he believed authorities acted quickly because his son is of Asian heritage, as was the Virginia Tech campus shooter. Family therapist Michael Gurian, author of The Minds of Boys, said Allen Lee needs at least good counseling, but "If he was arrested solely based on those words, I don't see that as the most helpful course.''
Now we get to send every scriptwriter in Hollywood, and Stephen King, and Anne Rice, and Joyce Carol Oates, and all the writers for CSI and Close to Home to counseling, and possibly a $1,500 fine and some jail time. And Thomas Harris, well, we can just throw the key away.
THIS WAS A CREATIVE ENGLISH CLASS.
Posts: 6369 | Location: British Columbia, Canada | Registered: 06-11-02
I thought that the kid's lawyer wouldn't say things like 
