A statement by a member from Canada has prompted this question. Do different countries have different facts? I don't mean things like the US winning all the wars almost alone, the typical chauvinism of most countries, or, as another pointed out, the UK seeing fog over the Channel (What does France call that body of water?) as isolating the Continent. I am referring to some basic things taught in school that we all assume are facts, but in reality, are not considered such in other countries? The names of wars and battles may vary from country to country, and we all know that generally, the winner gets to write history. But some things are not so clear, I think. Further, some countries adopt new information more quickly than others. (In the US, some states adopt new information more quickly than others.)
The US sees:
the American (sometimes called Scots-American) inventor Alexander Graham Bell as the inventor of the telephone
American Henry Ford invented the automobile (Most Americans really believe this.)
Italian Christopher Columbus was the first European to set foot on either of the Americas (which may be two continents or one)
Englishmen John and Sebastian Cabot sailed to the New World
Australia is an island, not a continent
Abner Doubleday invented baseball OR Alexander Cartwright invented baseball
and, of course, footballs have pointy ends ---- Being a historian, and also being obsessed with trivia, I know the truth of most of the above misconceptions, but I don't know how other countries view things. A start would be to ask members in other countries what they see as factual or not factual in the above statements. ************************************************** 05-14-06, 10:45 PM jusork I thought most Americans considered Australia both a continent and an island. Don't most Americans know that there are seven continents and Australia's one of them? 05-15-06, 12:22 AM DorianGreyed Australia is almost universally regarded as a continent, not an island, in US geography textbooks. ************************************************** 05-15-06, 01:24 AM FredPuli The English Channel is called La Manche ( " the sleeve ") in French.It's invariably called simply " the Channel" by Britons and only gets its full title on Admiralty charts and the like.Britain itself is usually " Big Britanny" ( Grande Bretagne ) to the French ( some people just won't let go Smile ). In recent times French officialdom has used Royaume Uni (United Kingdom ) instead because that accurately translates our official name.
So who invented the telephone ? We were always taught that it was the Scot Alexander Graham Bell Wink.
We also learned that the television was invented by John Logie Baird another Scot. That's only true to the extent that he was first to invent a system which was later used for public broadcasting by the BBC and that that was the first public broadcasting. However it ignores the fact that the BBC were running it and the Marconi Company's system together in the same year before finally deciding on the system to use nationally .The winning system was the Marconi Company's system. Baird's system did not even use a cathode ray tube.The Marconi version is like the system used now.
The first governor of the BBC was Lord Reith, yet another Scot. We might well suspect that Reith had a hand in promoting the image of Baird as the sole inventor, quite apart from any chauvinist preference on the part of the British.
A 1930s Logie Baird set would be a rare find. Marconi system sets of that era could still be used and my family had a pre WW2 example into the 1950s ( de luxe, with self-tuning radio and a big screen of 12 inches that faced the ceiling. There was an angled mirror on top of the case to reflect the picture into the room, the screen showing the image mirror- fashion. The reason was that the neck of the gun on the picture tube was very long, too long to be put horizontally and still fit comfortably Smile) ************************************************** 05-15-06, 01:47 AM babthrower
quote: So who invented the telephone ? We were always taught that it was the Scot Alexander Graham Bell Wink.
Sorry, it was the Canadian Alexander Graham Bell who invented the telephone. I don't know who those other two fellows are.
Our Alexander G.B. was born in 1847 in Scotland. Noticing his error, he emigrated to Canada in 1870, even before reaching his majority (in those days 30). Canada's bracing air fostered Bell's genius.
By his own account, it was "while relaxing atop the bluff he referred to as "his dreaming place," near his Brantford home, Bell allowed himself to brainstorm about a "harmonic telegraph" device he was working on. Alexander figured that if he could make an electric current undulate the same way air does when sound is produced, he could transmit speech telegraphically. This daydream became the basis for the invention of the telephone.
He did some work at Boston University, and maintained a pied-à-terre near there, but maintained his home in Brantford, Ontario.
He also built a home, which he named Beinn Bhreagh, in Baddeck, Nova Scotia. The Baddeck estate was a source of inspiration for Bell. He devoted the remainder of his life to inventing, and many of his most inspired creations were developed at Beinn Bhreagh. Though he is best known for the telephone, Bell was responsible for several other key inventions, including a photophone (which transmitted speech via a ray of light); an induction balance used to locate pieces of metal in the human body; a precursor of the iron lung; a wax-recording cylinder (the basis for the phonograph); and a hydrofoil boat, known as the HD-4, that was the fastest boat in the world for many years.
So while it is easy to understand why others might want to claim him as their own, it was to Canada that he belonged. Razz ************************************************** 05-15-06, 06:49 AM FredPuli
quote: Originally posted by babthrower:
Noticing his error, he emigrated to Canada in 1870, even before reaching his majority (in those days 30).
Surely he'd already reached his majority at 21 Smile Did nobody tell him? He might not have left had he known.
He had a vote too. Women did not get the vote until 1918 and only when theywere 30; an attempt to correct the distortion in sex-ratio caused by the loss of men in the Great War; but for men in Britain it was always 21, the age at which they ceased to be 'infants'[ a lawyers' term not meaning the age at which they ceased to be infantile ]
He may not have been able to come in to ownership of trust funds or an estate until 30 but only because, as is common, the trust deed was in those terms. Some donors don't expect someone who is only just adult in law to be responsible with large funds, hence the technically adult 'trust fund babes' of the world. ************************************************** 05-15-06, 08:48 AM babthrower Congrats, Fred, you have found the first of the 'errors' in my made-up claim to Canadian possession of Bell. No coincidence that it was the legalistic point? Wink Notice how the statement of claim is liberally sprinkled with 'facts' so that unless one is diligent one may be lulled into the sense that the claim is genuine, and be thereby persuaded that he abandoned his native land in 'infancy'.
Alas, no, my post is merely an illustration of DG's point that different nations have different 'facts'.
Still, our claim is better than the Yanks'. Razz ************************************************** 05-15-06, 05:14 PM FredPuli As if to prove the point: Wikipedia said that Bell has a unique distinction. He has appeared on lists of " 100 Greatest Americans" " 100 Greatest Canadians " and "100 Greatest Scots" and all at the same time. Smile
There must be more New Zealanders and more Canadians with Scottish ancestry than there are Scots Smile.
Scots are allowed to be famous engineers and famous inventors and still be referred to as Scots. In every other field their nationality never seems to be acknowledged by the English who there describe them only as 'British'. It must fit some national stereotype for Britons whereby certain peoples can star in one or two subjects: Germans as engineers and industrial chemists for example, rather than allow the national diversity of skills which produce noteworthy individuals. Confused ************************************************** 06-13-06, 01:17 AM Oleg
quote:
the American (sometimes called Scots-American) inventor Alexander Graham Bell as the inventor of the telephone
In Russia everybody is agree with this statement.
quote:
American Henry Ford invented the automobile (Most Americans really believe this.)
We know Henry Ford as an inventor of conveyor (production line), but not as an inventor of the automobile. [/QUOTE]
quote:
Italian Christopher Columbus was the first European to set foot on either of the Americas (which may be two continents or one)
It's difficult to say who was the first, bacause Amerigo Vispuchi (have I written correctly?) discovered this continent earlier. But there is an information that the first discoverers was vikings. [/QUOTE]
quote:
Australia is an island, not a continent
Nobody in our country think so. :-) ************************************************** 06-13-06, 08:57 AM methos Amerigo Vespucci did not reach America before Columbus. His first voyage was no earlier than 1497 (5 years after Columbus), and even that one is seriously doubted. He did, however, make it there a couple years later. The continents bear his name because he recognized that they were new land (rather than part of India), not because he discovered them.
There are a lot of doubts about some of the claims made for Viking voyages to the Americas, but one site, L'Anse aux Meadows , has been authenticated. ************************************************** 06-13-06, 10:54 AM Fourbrick2 Martin Waldseemuller, a German mapmaker, was one of the first to (wrongly) believe that Vespucci was the first European to reach the "New World." In 1507, he suggested they call it America after Amerigo, and soon this name was used throughout and eventually used officially in the naming of the continent. ************************************************** 06-13-06, 12:15 PM DorianGreyed "We know Henry Ford as an inventor of conveyor (production line), but not as an inventor of the automobile."
Ford improved the production line, but Ranson E. Olds (the only man with two automobiles named after him, the Oldsmobile and the Reo) is credited with inventing the assembly/production line.
As far as who made the first automobile, much depends on the definition of the word. A machine that moved under its own power was used to dredge harbors was invented in 1789*. It traveled on both land and water.
In the US, most (of those who offer an opinion and have some knowledge of the subject) give either Russian Vladimir Zworykin or American Philo Farnsworth as inventing television. Farnsworth is just now getting credit after decades of being in the shadows.
*The first automobile patent in the United States was granted to Oliver Evans in 1789 for his "Amphibious Digger". It was a harbor dredge scow designed to be powered by a steam engine and he built wheels to attach to the bow. In 1804 Evans demonstrated his first successful self-propelled vehicle, which not only was the first automobile in the US but was also the first amphibious vehicle, as his steam-powered vehicle was able to travel on wheels on land as he demonstrated once, and via a paddle wheel in the water. It was not successful and eventually was sold as spare parts. - Wikipedia ************************************************** 06-14-06, 12:33 AM Oleg
quote: Originally posted by methos: Amerigo Vespucci did not reach America before Columbus. His first voyage was no earlier than 1497 (5 years after Columbus), and even that one is seriously doubted. He did, however, make it there a couple years later. The continents bear his name because he recognized that they were new land (rather than part of India), not because he discovered them.
But Columbus didn't reach America itself until his 3-rd expedition (about 1500). He reached only Bahama Islands and islands in the Caribbean sea.
quote: There are a lot of doubts about some of the claims made for Viking voyages to the Americas.
In fact, Northmen visited America hundreds years before Columbus. But prerogative of discoverer of America belongs to Columbus because only after his expeditions existence of this continent was accepted by the Old World. ************************************************** 06-14-06, 01:38 AM Oleg
quote: Ford improved the production line, but Ranson E. Olds (the only man with two automobiles named after him, the Oldsmobile and the Reo) is credited with inventing the assembly/production line.
I'm absolutely agree with you. Ford succeeded in creation mass line production because of his new moving production line.
quote: In the US, most (of those who offer an opinion and have some knowledge of the subject) give either Russian Vladimir Zworykin or American Philo Farnsworth as inventing television. Farnsworth is just now getting credit after decades of being in the shadows.
There is a polisemantic answer on this question. A number of people made an important contribution to inventing television. The idea of television belongs to Paul Nipkov, as I remember. Boris Rozing was the first person who demonstrated image with receiving TV-tube (1907). Then Campball Suitone (I don't know how to write his name correctly) demonstrated transmitting TV-tube. Iconoscope was patented by Semen Kataev and few month later by Vladimir Zvorykin (1931). Philo Farnsworth improved television system to create possibility of common use. That what I know, but I'm sure that there is something to add (for example from the links above). And sorry for my bad English. ************************************************** 06-14-06, 09:46 AM methos
quote:
Originally posted by Oleg: ... But Columbus didn't reach America itself until his 3-rd expedition (about 1500). He reached only Bahama Islands and islands in the Caribbean sea.
We consider that part of America. In any case, John Cabot reached the American mainland in 1497, Columbus did so in 1498, and Vespucci did not do so until 1499. Vespucci was actually not in charge of that journey, Alonso de Ojeda was. They did split up, and I am uncertain, between the two of them, who reached the mainland first, but Columbus and Cabot beat them both. (I don't know if I've left anyone else out prior to Vespucci, but I think it's at least clear he was not the first European since the Vikings to reach the mainland.)
quote:
In fact, Northmen visited America hundreds years before Columbus. But prerogative of discoverer of America belongs to Columbus because only after his expeditions existance of this continent was accepted by the Old World.
Yes, as I said, there is one confirmed site I even linked to an article about it. I was only pointing out that a lot of the claims about Vikings are doubted. ************************************************** 08-04-06, 06:03 PM JohnGalt
quote:
Originally posted by DorianGreyed: Do different countries have different facts?. . . I am referring to some basic things taught in school that we all assume are facts, but in reality, are not considered such in other countries?
Ninth Grade Palestinian textbooks have (at least in the very recent past) not mentioned the Oslo Accords and the maps contained in these textbooks do not show the nation of Israel. Likewise, the Holocaust receives little to no coverage. Dr. Musa Al-Zu'but, Chairman of the Education Committee of the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) said, "There will be no such attempt to include the history of the Holocaust in the Palestinian curriculum..." Al-Zu'but went on to say, "The Holocaust has been exaggerated..."
Whether these are still the official party line in PA schools, I do not know.
Another aspect along related lines of your question is the deliberate changing of photographs in the history books. Among the most insidious examples of this occurred in the old Soviet Union. Click here to see the original photograph of Nikolai Yezhov, chief of the Soviet secret police standing next to Stalin. However, after he fell out of favor with Stalin, he was removed from the photograph, and I can only imagine what happened to him in real life! Not too bad of a retouching job considering they didn't have PhotoShop back then!
And, of course, the various biology books from a few states occasionally get the anti-evolution sticker or whatnot put in them until the inevitable lawsuits have them removed.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 17269 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
Not too bad of a retouching job considering they didn't have PhotoShop back then! 
