quote:

---

Originally posted by kittypal:
I love Murphy's Oil Soap, it leaves my cabinets and wood surfaces feeling all smooth....I rarely ever use furniture polish anymore, because it always leaves a film.

I do have quick question though for anyone, the other day my coffee table must have had something on it (don't know what) anyway my dad tends to put his feet on the table when watching t.v and it was like his socks left a white fuzzy film?? I can NOT wash it off, I have used Murphy's and literally scrubbed, it will nit come off, the fuzz has, but it left behind some white film, it looks almost like someone white washed it. it is only a small patch, but big enough to notice...the table is birds eye maple and I don't want to ruin it..HELP!!!

---

quote:

Originally posted by DvdGStwrt:
Well its a bit more complicated than just the finish.

If this sticky stuff is soft and relatively easy to scrape off with your fingernail, then it is a combination of Age, human body oils and a build up of furniture polish, wood wax and oils.

Add to that the heat of summer along with humidity and it begins to "run" or soften enough to be a problem.

Even the seat of your pants will leave behind some body oils. Even if you just put on the pants, unless it is a brand spanking new pair of pants, the material will have some oils in it. Humans are, relatively speaking, cruddy creatures. Body soil/oils is what turns whites grey and yellow BTW. No detergent, bleach or chemical removes 100% of that from cloth.

I got side tracked.

Add to that a good healthy dose of time, dust, and in the kitchen fine mists of cooking oil, grease and even smoke (even if you never burnt a thing in the kitchen, cooking produces smoke) You get a thin layer of material which will work into any finish and cause that to turn waxy, soft and sticky.

Short of stripping and refinishing the wood, there is very little one can do to remove the problem completely. The Problem will happen no matter what you do, Antique furniture which has that black and bubbly finish is where all finishes are going (Well many of the newer ones mayn't). It is a product of use and time.

There are a few methods which, over time, reduce the stickiness and crud build up, but not completely. Some are basically stripping the finish, but in thin layers over many applications:

1. Ammonia. Common enough household cleaner, test on an unseen part of the wood, mix it with a gallon of water about a cup of ammonia to a gallon of water. This stuff stinks, is harsh and will strip a fine layer of finish. If the finish has been compromised a lot (which it may have given the description you gave) then a lot more finish will be removed. This could mean you end up with bare wood patches. That is not good, I would use ammonia as the first step of stripping a piece of furniture, or for stripping a wax floor. I personally would not use it for cleaning furniture. That is how harsh it is.

2. Murphy's Oil Soap. This is specifically made for cleaning wood, has been around for like ever and is, in my opinion, one of the best cleaners for wood. Read the Directions on the bottle for use, again test first, some finishes (waxes) will be stripped away with Murphy's. Though this will not remove all of the sticky stuff at the first use, continual use will, over time, reduce the stickiness. If you switch to using Murphy's all the time you clean you will virtually end up with non-sticky furniture. IF you can get the damage under control first continual use means no sticky furniture for a very, very long time. Murphy's Oil Soap doesn't need to be rinsed, and it does not build up over time it protects wood and restores some oils in the wood which, over time, will go very deep where it is needed most. I sing the praises of Murphy's oil soap, it has been around for 90 years, it works all the time and I have found that it cleans more than just wood.

3. Wax removers/Degreasers. Such as 409, these will remove the buildup. The downside is that you will find that after you clean there is more sticky left behind. Why? because 409 will be absorbed by the wood/stain/finish and will release more of the wax/soil/oil build up. This can lead to another issue where you end up building up more soil/oil/etc faster because the surface is sticky.

Unless you are planning on doing some serious cleaning I wouldn't use 409 or other degreasers, this will require you to spend a good deal of time spraying it on, cleaning it off over and over again. It may be something to consider if you want to get rid of the problem now, it will require a day of hard work for all of that cabinetry in the kitchen alone. Again test first on a corner.

Then there is the polish you Use, Forget old English, Pledge, and all of that other stuff, all of these contain wax, oils, etc and will, while leaving a nice shiny surface, but also leave a thin layer of material which will trap the stuff already on the wood which adds to the problem. If you polish all the time, stop it. Stop it now: all waxes contain a solvent that keeps the wax soft until it is spread out on the surface of the furniture. Then the solvent evaporates and the wax "hardens." The solvent in the wax will dissolve the old wax each time you apply a new coat. In hot humid conditions the wax doesn't harden right off beneath the surface, thus you are left with a soft layer which has a crust but touching or moveing the mand over it will break the crust leaving you with sticky wax.

There are many products out there which remove that, these are light strippers, meaning that the wax is stripped, which depending on the wood, the finish you may end up having lighter, brighter furniture and cabinets than you think under a layer of old dirty wax. Many people go out and strip wood things thinking that the stain that was used was too dark, when in fact all it is is a layer of years and debris which darkened the wood.

Furniture polishes (Pledge, Old English, etc) are over used. Most furniture is protected well enough with lacquers, epoxies, resins, polymer coatings, yada, yada, yada. Oils, polishes are meant for older furniture which has had the protective layer removed through time, or furniture that is drying out. So if you live in say Arizona then you would use an oil in the summer when it is dry and hot. If you live in say New York, you would use an oil in the winter while the furnace is heating and drying out everything. If you live in the south, where it is humid and warm most of the time, you should not need to use a polish or oil.

Use Murphy's oil soap or other wood cleaner (not polish, not wax, cleaner) to clean the surface. In many applications all you need is to dust, or at best use a damp cloth with clear water to clean a wood surface that has been finished. I very nearly had to break the fingers of Danny to get him to stop oiling my antiques and wood furniture. We are raised with this idea that in order to have clean and nice "protected" furniture we must continually apply these products. In many cases to restore the shine all you need to do is buff lightly with a soft cloth. The wax is already there, the water does not remove it, a little friction will bring out a shine.

Lastly and most importantly, if any of this furniture is old, like over 50 years old you may want to consult with an antique furniture dealer before you start the process of removing the build up. There have been many times when a person gets an old, dirty looking antique, have it stripped and refinished to discover that instead of getting a couple of thousand for the refinished piece had they left it alone it would have been worth tens of thousands.

I think that covers it all.

Cheers

David

quote:

Originally posted by Pappy:Thanks David, info was most helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by DvdGStwrt:
Well its a bit more complicated than just the finish.

If this sticky stuff is soft and relatively easy to scrape off with your fingernail, then it is a combination of Age, human body oils and a build up of furniture polish, wood wax and oils.

Add to that the heat of summer along with humidity and it begins to "run" or soften enough to be a problem.

Even the seat of your pants will leave behind some body oils. Even if you just put on the pants, unless it is a brand spanking new pair of pants, the material will have some oils in it. Humans are, relatively speaking, cruddy creatures. Body soil/oils is what turns whites grey and yellow BTW. No detergent, bleach or chemical removes 100% of that from cloth.

I got side tracked.

Add to that a good healthy dose of time, dust, and in the kitchen fine mists of cooking oil, grease and even smoke (even if you never burnt a thing in the kitchen, cooking produces smoke) You get a thin layer of material which will work into any finish and cause that to turn waxy, soft and sticky.

Short of stripping and refinishing the wood, there is very little one can do to remove the problem completely. The Problem will happen no matter what you do, Antique furniture which has that black and bubbly finish is where all finishes are going (Well many of the newer ones mayn't). It is a product of use and time.

There are a few methods which, over time, reduce the stickiness and crud build up, but not completely. Some are basically stripping the finish, but in thin layers over many applications:

1. Ammonia. Common enough household cleaner, test on an unseen part of the wood, mix it with a gallon of water about a cup of ammonia to a gallon of water. This stuff stinks, is harsh and will strip a fine layer of finish. If the finish has been compromised a lot (which it may have given the description you gave) then a lot more finish will be removed. This could mean you end up with bare wood patches. That is not good, I would use ammonia as the first step of stripping a piece of furniture, or for stripping a wax floor. I personally would not use it for cleaning furniture. That is how harsh it is.

2. Murphy's Oil Soap. This is specifically made for cleaning wood, has been around for like ever and is, in my opinion, one of the best cleaners for wood. Read the Directions on the bottle for use, again test first, some finishes (waxes) will be stripped away with Murphy's. Though this will not remove all of the sticky stuff at the first use, continual use will, over time, reduce the stickiness. If you switch to using Murphy's all the time you clean you will virtually end up with non-sticky furniture. IF you can get the damage under control first continual use means no sticky furniture for a very, very long time. Murphy's Oil Soap doesn't need to be rinsed, and it does not build up over time it protects wood and restores some oils in the wood which, over time, will go very deep where it is needed most. I sing the praises of Murphy's oil soap, it has been around for 90 years, it works all the time and I have found that it cleans more than just wood.

3. Wax removers/Degreasers. Such as 409, these will remove the buildup. The downside is that you will find that after you clean there is more sticky left behind. Why? because 409 will be absorbed by the wood/stain/finish and will release more of the wax/soil/oil build up. This can lead to another issue where you end up building up more soil/oil/etc faster because the surface is sticky.

Unless you are planning on doing some serious cleaning I wouldn't use 409 or other degreasers, this will require you to spend a good deal of time spraying it on, cleaning it off over and over again. It may be something to consider if you want to get rid of the problem now, it will require a day of hard work for all of that cabinetry in the kitchen alone. Again test first on a corner.

Then there is the polish you Use, Forget old English, Pledge, and all of that other stuff, all of these contain wax, oils, etc and will, while leaving a nice shiny surface, but also leave a thin layer of material which will trap the stuff already on the wood which adds to the problem. If you polish all the time, stop it. Stop it now: all waxes contain a solvent that keeps the wax soft until it is spread out on the surface of the furniture. Then the solvent evaporates and the wax "hardens." The solvent in the wax will dissolve the old wax each time you apply a new coat. In hot humid conditions the wax doesn't harden right off beneath the surface, thus you are left with a soft layer which has a crust but touching or moveing the mand over it will break the crust leaving you with sticky wax.

There are many products out there which remove that, these are light strippers, meaning that the wax is stripped, which depending on the wood, the finish you may end up having lighter, brighter furniture and cabinets than you think under a layer of old dirty wax. Many people go out and strip wood things thinking that the stain that was used was too dark, when in fact all it is is a layer of years and debris which darkened the wood.

Furniture polishes (Pledge, Old English, etc) are over used. Most furniture is protected well enough with lacquers, epoxies, resins, polymer coatings, yada, yada, yada. Oils, polishes are meant for older furniture which has had the protective layer removed through time, or furniture that is drying out. So if you live in say Arizona then you would use an oil in the summer when it is dry and hot. If you live in say New York, you would use an oil in the winter while the furnace is heating and drying out everything. If you live in the south, where it is humid and warm most of the time, you should not need to use a polish or oil.

Use Murphy's oil soap or other wood cleaner (not polish, not wax, cleaner) to clean the surface. In many applications all you need is to dust, or at best use a damp cloth with clear water to clean a wood surface that has been finished. I very nearly had to break the fingers of Danny to get him to stop oiling my antiques and wood furniture. We are raised with this idea that in order to have clean and nice "protected" furniture we must continually apply these products. In many cases to restore the shine all you need to do is buff lightly with a soft cloth. The wax is already there, the water does not remove it, a little friction will bring out a shine.

Lastly and most importantly, if any of this furniture is old, like over 50 years old you may want to consult with an antique furniture dealer before you start the process of removing the build up. There have been many times when a person gets an old, dirty looking antique, have it stripped and refinished to discover that instead of getting a couple of thousand for the refinished piece had they left it alone it would have been worth tens of thousands.

I think that covers it all.

Cheers

David