One of my ancesters lists his circa 1831 birthplace as "Down Ireland" on the 1860 US census. His wife lists her (also circa 1831) birthplace as "South Ireland" in the same census. They had both been in the US for at least 7 years. This is the first time I have found any foreign birthplace on a census with anything more specific than the country (except for French Canada).

My speculation... A Google search does return a county in Ireland named Down. South Ireland could be as simple as the southern part of Ireland. The unusualness of listing more than the country makes me question whether, particularly for Down, there is something I'm missing.

Anyone know what would have been refered to as Down Ireland in 1860? South Ireland?

It seems to me that the Irish often (usually?), when asked where they come from, say the county name rather than the city name. (My impression may be flavored, however, by the US movie practice of showing this method of self-identification more than any other.) I do know that using the county as a "home town" is very prevalent among those from the south in the US.

County Down is on the eastern coast of Northern Ireland.


Northern Ireland is a country of beauty and variety; and no part of it combines so much of each in so neat and compact an area as the heart of Down.
The world knows that 'the Mountains o' Mourne sweep down to the sea' - at Newcastle. The sea itself invades the land, forming the great bird sanctuary and yachting paradise of Strangford Lough. St Patrick sailed into the lough in A.D. 432 and eventually died - at Downpatrick.

Another Map

In 1860, all of Ireland was one entity, so "South Ireland" would have meant the southern part of Ireland. Since the Irish nationalist movement was active at this time, identifying with "South Ireland" may have indicated sympathy with the movement rather than ties with great Britain.

Methos
"Down" is County Down which is now in Northern Ireland due to the age of the item
Northern Ireland only formed 1922
Principal town is Downpatrick
Is Bordered to the south By County Louth (main town Dundalk) which is in Ireland
But My guess If it says "South Ireland" would be any of the Munster counties

quote:

Originally posted by DorianGreyed:
It seems to me that the Irish often (usually?), when asked where they come from, say the county name rather than the city name

Invariably,not normally

The 'standard question' on meeting a fellow Irishman or woman is to ask 'what county are you from?'. There's a good reason. The country is rural and agricultural. The towns are not, or were not, large or significant, with the exception of Dublin.

This habit of thinking of your county and of your belonging to it is remarkably strong. When I lived in Hammersmith, West London,on first moving in I went into the nearest pub . The landlord was Irish, as was the nearest customer, so I asked the standard question. 'County Meath' came the reply, 'and yourself?' 'Clare' says I. 'Ah' he says' you're in the wrong pub! You need the pub that's down the third turning after the lights' Now, I thought this was just a jest at first, but sure enough, when I eventually went there I asked the standard question. The answer came 'Clare' and there was not a man or woman there Irish who wasn't from that county !

A little research, and a few pints or whiskeys in each bar , revealed that every Irish county, near enough; Northern Ireland wasn't universally represented; had its 'own' pub just in Hammersmith. Amazing.The area has a strong Irish element but is not thought of as very Irish.

And Down? County Down is a county in the North. It is known most pleasingly to the English from 'The Star of the County Down', a happy romantic song, made famous in Britain by the Irish tenor Count John McCormack

PS Are you sure it reads 'South Ireland'? Does it perhaps read 'Louth Ireland'? Then both people have given a county as their place in Ireland. 'South Ireland, then and now, is meaningless.

And to think, Tex-in-exile and I were just talking the chatting night about how careful you have to be with interpretting old handwriting. Yes, it's an L, not an S. Although it's still odd to see the county name listed (not because it isn't a city, but because I've never even seen a city listed), it certainly makes more sense that they both listed counties.

Thanks for the help, especially Fred with the catch of my misreading.