Is the Vatican a country even though it's in the middle of Rome? Is there a country smaller than this? If it's not a country, what is the smallest one?

No. The Vatican is the smallest. Next in line is Monaco. From Time Almanac 1997 estimates:

Andorra..............450 sq km, 75,000 people
Antiqua/Barbuda..440 sq km, 66,175 people
Barbados............430 sq km, 257,000 people
Grenada.............340 sq km, 95,500 people
Liechtenstein......160 sq km, 31,000 people
Maldives.............300 sq km, 280,000 people
Malta.................320 sq km, 380,000 people
St Kitts/Nevis......269 sq km, 41,800 people
St Vincent..........340 sq km, 120,000 people
Seychelles..........455 sq km, 78,000 people

Vatican City.....: .44 sq km, 1000 people
Monaco...........: 1.8 sq km, 32,000 people

[This message was edited by mahal on 07-01-02 at 11:34 PM.]

"The Sovereign Military Order of Malta, often referred to as the Order of Malta or Knights of Malta, was founded in Jerusalem in 1099 during the First Crusade. It is one of the oldest religious orders of the Catholic Church, an international hospitaller and relief organization, and a sovereign entity under international law."

See the official site:

http://www.orderofmalta.org/index.asp?idlingua=5

Its headquarters is the Palazzo Malta in Via dei Condotti 68 in Rome.

I've been waiting for you on this one, Decal.
You tell 'em.
Now, who wants to talk about John Hanson ?

For information only...personally, I've got no axe to grind on this topic...click here and a link will take you to the GeographyAbout website. That seems to suggest that calling the SMOM a "country" is, at best, dubious. That website reckons it has no more right to such a title than the Red Cross. (I'm also conscious of the fact that the USA has different ideas of what actually constitutes a country from much of the rest of the world...eg Taiwan.) Cheers. Ian

I humbly submit the Principality
of Sealand at 557.4 square meters

http://www.sealandgov.com/

I recall some ruffled feathers over this at our former gathering place! Is it too wishy-washy to support decal's technical position 100% but Ian's practical position in the same measure?

Why on earth would anyone want to argue over the gentleman who was obviously the first President of the United States?

'fuse, I've answered a lot of questions, but that's one I can't answer. At least with the smallest country question, there is room for disagreement over the requirements to be called a country. I think that issuing passports, minting coins, and having diplomatic relations with other countries satisfies the basic necessities; some poeple don't.

Ian, I followed that link, and found that the Vatican does not meet all the requirements set forth for a state (set forth by that site), while SMoM meets many. The Vatican does not issue money, does not have a permanent population, and its education system is a very limited one at best. Further, several other countries, as generally recognized, also do not meet all of those requirements; on Jeeves, I listed several that had no army, and a few that had no police force of any kind. In the case of SMoM, Italy seems to recognize its extraterratoriality. I also wonder about the transportation in several of the Pacific island States; do private boats and planes count ? I'm not saying that these things prove tha SMoM IS a country; I'm pointing out that the criteria for a country is not really determined. How can the lack of such requirements prevent an entity from being a country but the same lack does not prevent others ?

Personally, I'm inclined to agree with Decal, though that may not mean much. I don't expect a nation to meet all the criteria in order to be a nation. Legal recognition by the UN is enough for me.

The United Arab Emirates prints its own currency, but the value of the dirham is permenantly linked to the US dollar, and I don't consider that full economic independance. Many countries find advantages in oddities like this, and that should not reflect negatively on their status.

(I fell into this debate in ignorance, only happy to pull out my ref books and start typing! I've never heard of "SMoM" before today.)

Decal: Does SMoM have this recognition?

Dogspit: For the love of Pete, does Sealand even have a football team? Do they brew their own beer? Those are my requirements!

'spit - Ive read about Sealand somewhere else; it does seem to have many of the necessary qualifications...Yet, in the back of my mind, somehow, I think that a country should have some dirt somewhere, some native soil, some of "the auld sod." What would Sealand's national flower/plant be, a ficus ? And where would the natives go for vacation? "below" ? I guess the National Anthem could be some variation of the old Beach Boys hit, "The Sloop John B."

Yeah, I posted it mostly as a
humorous addition to a thread
that I love to read here as much
as I did on Jeeves. I find it
interesting the logical and real
arguments for what constitutes
a country. Interestingly at one
time there was talk of Sealand
building a cofferdam to remove
seawater and create some land
as it is in reasonably shallow water.

The SMOM has permanent observer status at the UN as well as Italian recognition of its extraterritorial rights over its properties in Rome.

Some SMOM postage stamps:

http://www.emmsaid.com/smomstamps.htm

It has its own NATIONAL ANTHEM, for crying out loud!

http://david.thenationalanthems.net/smm.mp3

I agree with Ian. If you visit the Malta order's site, no-where will you find the claim that it is a country. All it calls itself is an "order". It may have a flag. issue stamps, have an anthem, and have diplomatic ties with over 92 countries, but nowhere does it call itself a country. If they don't consider themselves a country, why should anybody else ?