One thing that strikes me about the UFO debate is the one reason that is so often missed in the all the arguments that take place on this subject and that is exactly the reason we're being visited. The earth is at the moment a unique planet for one reason and that is the abundance of water on its surface. If we look at the rest of the solar system there is one other moon I think of Jupiter that could have liquid water on it in any volume that appraoches that of earth. Earth is like a shining jewel in the night sky as that picture taken by the Apollo moon flights of earth from the moon demonstrates. I am sure that this beauty has not gone unnoticed by visitors to our planet.
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07-25-03, 07:38 AM
Elexina
But we know nothing about alien cultures. It could be that our environment is toxic for them, or too hot, or too warm, or they cannot exist around water, or their perception of beauty is entirely different than ours, or we play to much country music for their liking.

If they are visiting, we cannot assume any reasons. If they visit, it can only be due to interest or necessity, but until they contact someone who does not live in a trailer park, or abduct a statesman or something, we will not have reliable believable information as to their intentions.
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07-25-03, 09:01 AM
methos
It is unique within our solar system for that reason, but who is to say whether there are earth-like planets in other solar systems? (our techniques and instruments are not yet good enough to detect something so small).
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07-25-03, 02:52 PM
JohnGalt
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe.

Oxygen is the third most abundant element in the Universe.

Combine the most common element and the 3rd most common element and . . . voila you’ve got water!

Assuming that there really are aliens who can transverse the mind boggling distance between stars to visit our planet (and consume what must be a enormous amount of fuel in the process) just to get some of Earth’s water, this implies that, despite this incredible technological know how, these hypothetical aliens are somehow completely ignorant of combining elements to get some good old fashioned H2O. And God only knows how many comets they pass on the way to get here. These must be some mighty stupid aliens not to realize they could just scoop up any comet and melt it down to get some water without having to visit another planet in another Solar System!

And, of course, why hasn’t anyone seen any of these aliens taking our water? In this day and age where nearly everyone has a video camera running constantly, not one single piece of footage showing an alien ship doing anything, let alone doing something with our water. And why haven’t we noticed some drop in our water supply? You don’t travel billions of light years just for a tiny sip. Smile
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07-25-03, 10:49 PM
Texan-In-Exile
Oh the possibilities! Big Grin

Who's to say that other life forms travel as we do?
And maybe Earth has something about it that makes it easier to obtain water here.
And how do you know that aliens haven't been partaking of our water? Do they photograph the same as we do?
Confused
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07-28-03, 09:03 AM
Elexina
Precisely. Who's to say?
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07-28-03, 10:06 AM
JohnGalt
I believe in life on other planets. And not just simple life, but complex life that has developed technological civilization. I have no proof to justify such a belief. Basically, I guess it comes down to a form of faith. But I must admit that, due to the lack of any evidence, I could be wrong. It's possible one way or the other.

But the proponents of “aliens not only exist, but they routinely visit Earth” theory can’t seem to accept all the possibilities. Yes, it is possible that such aliens desperately need our water (and are ignorant of how else to get it.) Yes it is possible that aliens and their ships don’t show up on our film, videotape or radar screens. Yes, it is possible they can travel in a manner that allows them to violate the light speed limit of the Universe. All these things are possible. But there is yet another possibility: And that is that perhaps, just perhaps, they have never been here. Such a possibility is no more radical than any other of the extreme possibilities put forth by those who believe that UFOs are alien spacecraft.

I’d absolutely love to have proof of any alien life form. And the more advanced life, the better. But for me at least, since there is no proof, my faith in life on other planets can’t extend to a belief in them visiting Earth. At some point, I need proof. And I know that my belief in the possibility of life on other planets could even be wrong. But that’s just me.
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07-29-03, 05:12 PM
DvdGStwrt
If the issue is one of water, there is far more water in the rings of Saturn in the form of ice then in the oceans of the Earth.

Heck, the Oort cloud has many times more water, and one would assume it is closer to the aliens home world, and would not require the need to fight the inhabitants to get at it.

And as pointed out, any technologically advanced race who can cross the vast distances of space to visit another world must, by its very nature, know how to make water out of the elements in abundance in the universe - it isn't that hard, just burning hydrogen and oxygen together forms water vapor.

Elexina: There are more than just trailer folk being "abducted", there are people who are more reputable reporting the same things. One must wonder how many more are not reporting in in fear of being classified a 'red-neck' a 'hillbilly' or a trailer dweller.

Me thinks that the issue of "abduction" crosses all walks of life, just the smart ones don't come out and say anything due to the unbelievable amounts of ridicule the subject generates. I think that what ever the cause may be, we have swept the subject under the rug and are failing to research it and find out why it (what ever IT is) takes place.

John Galt: Martha Stewart has a recipe for water somewhere - this sound just like it Big Grin

Seriously, there are only a limited number of reasons to traverse light years to probe a world's populations:

1. Exploration, sheer science - however for the expense, sending probes would surely be far more economical.

2. To exploit the Planet for minerals and metals The natural resources a planet may have (metals, minerals, etc) are found in asteroids, comets, etc which are far easier to extract and far more abundant. Leaving us with life to exploit.

3. To exploit the life, either to get a slave race, or to eat. However, unless evolution sticks to just one set of directions, any off world food sources may not be compatible to an alien species. Having a slave race sound like a good idea, but as we have learned in the 20th and 21st century, it is far more economical and easier to build a slave race (machines) than it is to dominate an intelligent species and 'force' them to serve.

4. Conquest and annihilation of the sentient species in order to colonize a terrestrial type planet. This makes the assumption that terrestrial planets are common enough to support life which is commonly supported by the same conditions, but also makes the assumption rare enough to make taking over from the aboriginals a necessity.

5. Benevolent need to guide and aid a young intelligent species to maturity. This scenario though lovely to behold forgets the lessons we have learned through our own history of taking enlightenment to primitive cultures. It will not work - period.

Being benevolent is often misconstrued as one having to do something to help. In the case of young species, the best thing you can do is allow them to develop on their own - or annihilate themselves.

I seriously doubt that the so called aliens are aliens - meaning non-terrestrial in origin.

I seriously doubt that we should dismiss UFOs - there is something in the sky and there is enough photographic evidence that suggests that something is up there - maybe not et, but something. Besides which, the fascination of seeing something in the sky that ain't suppose to be there can be traced all the way back to the dawn (and before) of history. Cave paintings are suggestive in that the painter saw something and drew it along side the animals he hunted.

There is something: I'm just amazed at how easily this something is dismissed - it suggest conspiracy - it suggests that somebody knows something but doesn't want it to come out. Or maybe it suggests that humanity, as a species, is very closed minded when it comes to scientific learning and picks and chooses what it wants to know about.

Something is happening to the abductee. Is it aliens doing anal probes? Are there really alien tracking devices being dug out of people's bodies? Or are these things something else and are being myth-classified or just plain ignored?

I'd like to know for certain, there is enough conjecture to keep the subject interesting, but little in the way of hard cold facts - well the skeptics say they have the facts, but then so do the true believers.... Funny how that works.

Assuming for a moment that Aliens have taken an interest in Earth and Us - no matter the reason, it can't be good for us - seriously, even the best intentions have negative ramifications - until we are advanced enough to find the aliens on our own, or meet them on neutral ground, any approach from them to us could have disastrous results.

Ask Captain Cook, Ask the American Natives, Ask the countless other societies who, being enlightened by Western Missionaries ended up dieing as a culture.

David
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07-29-03, 10:31 PM
JohnGalt

quote:Originally posted by DvdGStwrt:
There is something: I'm just amazed at how easily this something is dismissed - it suggest conspiracy - it suggests that somebody knows something but doesn't want it to come out. Or maybe it suggests that humanity, as a species, is very closed minded when it comes to scientific learning and picks and chooses what it wants to know about.


I agree with you about this point. At least for the general population. The general population doesn’t like change - not even scientific truths, especially if those truths go against long held beliefs.

But scientists – those who purposely choose to go into such fields of learning – are much more open to radical new ideas. I would venture to say that most scientists would absolutely love to have evidence of extra terrestrial life. Thus the talk of any conspiracy usually concerns itself with government agencies. Such a belief is based on the very real fact that governments do like to keep secrets. But it ignores the fact that governments are horrible at keeping such secrets! So when it comes to conspiracies and scientists, any conspiracy involving such important scientific findings as alien life forms is completely antithetical to scientists and to what they stand for. It’s in their nature to talk. And the bigger the discovery, the more of them and the louder they would (and do) talk.

I find it very interesting (and telling) that astronomers and other scientists (as well as trained observers) aren’t yet convinced that UFOs are alien spacecraft. Is it possible they are? Yes. But is it probable? No.

And if it turns out that the aliens do exist and they are coming here, I also agree with you that it won’t be a nice friendly social call! The Twilight Zone’s “To Serve Man” would automatically turn into a documentary!
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08-01-03, 05:55 PM
Silver Thunder
Another argument has just come to mind as to why aliens have not been photographed or have been caught on video camera by anyone so far.
I assume that all of you will be familiar with concept of parallel universes.
That is that the universe that we see is just one of many thousands or millions of other universes that exist in different dimensions to our own.
So for example there may be more than one earth, there could be thousands if not millions. Each one and each universe could have taken a different course of evolution from our own. Life may not have developed there in these alternate universes and even the after effects of the big bang may have been very different from what we see in the heavens when we look at the night sky now. Indeed these universes may even be minute, microscopic as some theorists suggest.
So they the aliens may not have a long way to come to visit earth. Just simply and I know its a lot more complicated than this alter local dimensional relativity in their own universe and appear in our own reality.
Also as an after thought to all this what if the aliens are simply time travellers coming back from our future to what is our present and their past? Or from the fourth dimension cohabiting earth with us now?

[This message was edited by Silver Thunder on 08-01-03 at 06:05 PM.]

[This message was edited by Silver Thunder on 08-01-03 at 06:06 PM.]
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08-03-03, 04:05 PM
DvdGStwrt
Good theories, but they do not really answer the question and can be reduced to the same issues as I outlined above.

The problem surrounds the 'secrecy' of the UFOs.

These aloof craft keep their distance, on the one hand, yet on the other they mutilate our cattle, leaving behind the carcasses for us to find and wonder over the missing parts. They (the visitors) have a bad habit of snatching our people, brainwash them, probe them, then send them back with faulty memory wiping which are 'easily' broken through regression therapies. Lately there has been a rash of 'implants' being discovered, implants which are defying explanation and which does not bode well for our Visitors.

Further the craft take great pains to not be seen by Radar, have been reported to 'cloak' thus must be able to conduct their operations with out being spotted even once, but time and time again they uncloak, sometimes over large populations.

For a species reluctant to make contact, they spend a great deal of time in doing things that suggest otherwise.

Being telepaths (in most reports this is how the communicate) they should have a fair understanding if modern humans can or can not accept aliens. Since polls taken in recent years shows a high acceptance of UFOS but of aliens, then we should assume that the Visitors know that though we would be surprised, by now we would be accepting of them.

Something does not add up. Something is wrong. I suspect they are aggressors, perhaps having a book entitled 'How to Serve Man' or maybe they have darker plans for us. I suspect this because if another human acted anything like this they would have a dark design in mind.

http://www.bibleufo.com/index.htm Is an explanation which is interesting, but leads to more questions. This whole site suggests that UFOs are connected to God, Angels and other 'God related' things. All this site does (for me) is make me wonder why A ufo Flying "God" would desire to make us into worshipers.

From what we know, UFO's are sinister things, doing things in half secret and/or with malicious intent.

David
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08-04-03, 09:46 AM
JohnGalt
A couple of quick points:

As for the cattle “mutilations,” those are simply cases where predators (wolves, coyotes, etc.) have attacked and killed the cow (or it died from natural causes) followed by parasitic creatures such as small creatures and maggots eating away at the soft tissues creating the impression of “surgical” removal of some areas. There is no mystery among cattle "mutilations."

And as for “implants,” as of yet, not one single “implant” has ever been produced by anyone that can be considered “alien” by any stretch of the imagination. They are all earthly in origin. Once again: No mystery.

If the aliens are hostile I highly doubt they would be messing around with simple nonsense like what is claimed they are doing. It would be a “shock & awe” campaign on their part, and there would be no doubt about the alien’s existence or their intentions.
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08-21-03, 11:47 AM
clarebear

quote:Originally quoted by DvdGStwt:I suspect they are aggressors, perhaps having a book entitled 'How to Serve Man'...



Eek


If aliens really have contacted people and have been friendly to them then why don't they share with us their technology? Wouldn't they want to be our allies? Maybe they are afraid we would use the technology against them?

Roswell is nothing but a big tourist attraction.
I think a lot of the corny B-movies and books really would make someone afraid to tell people if they had seen something. I think it would be great if there was actually more than what we have now. I would LOVE to see an alien, a ghost, an angel, etc.. It would be nice to see firsthand instead of just believing something exists based on faith.
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12-22-03, 10:17 AM
phreak
all of you people are spending way to much time watching star trek. Roll Eyes

02-22-04, 07:09 PM
mystery250
If there are aliens, they are probably as curious about us, as we are about them.
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05-09-07, 08:52 PM
Valor D
And, here I thought the reason was their infamous anal probe!

You'de think that intelligent life which travels millions and billions of lightyears to Earth could find some better sights to look at.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,