The NCAA has declared that all universities who still use Indian nicknames and imagery which it deems "hostile or abusive" will not be allowed to display such imagery in post season play as of February 1, 2006. Is this an example of the organization's recognition of Native American sensibilities or just PC run amok?
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08-13-05, 10:39 AM
Yankees15
I believe it is PC run amok.

The Seminole nation in Florida is actually considering litigation against the NCAA if FSU is forced to stop using their name.

How about all the other Universities with Indian mascots and names? The NCAA is trying to play PC cop, when there are many more serious issues that seem to be ignored annually.

08-13-05, 02:36 PM
Jelp01
I was listening to an interview on a sports talk show on this subject, and the guest was the president of North Dakota University, whose nickname is the Fighting Sioux. And he made an excellent point. Dakota is, itself, an Indian name. He asked then if all the states whose name is of Indian origin should be made to change them. Good point, I thought.

It seems there is much more objection in behalf of Indians than by them. My college for years had the nickname Savages. Under pressure, it changed its nickname to the Eagles. Yet, when this same subject came up in Washington state a few years ago, the principal of a small junior high school near Grand Coulee Dam, and which is almost 100% Indian in enrollment, said her school's nickname, also the Savages, represents a proud tradition amongst Indians and wouldn't dream of changing it. Nor would the students and parents of the students. If Indians are all right and even proud of nicknames such as Savages, then who are we to object????

08-13-05, 03:28 PM
juanruiz
I find it ironic that the NCAA has its offices in Indianapolis, Indiana.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,

Can anyone supply an update on this?
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Playing the Devil's advocate, I'd like to ask some questions about this. What if some of the Sioux didn't like the use of their name? If it is OK to use a name if some of those of the named group don't object, can we apply that reasoning to other ethnic groups, such as the Irish or the Polish? The Jews or the Scots? The Germans or the Dutch? I'm sure that most of us can think of ethnic terms to use that would be offensive to some, but not all, of any members of each of those groups.

I'd also like to point out that the NCAA doesn't have the power to force any school to do anything. Following the rules of what I think is a private organization is voluntary. No university is forced to belong to the NCAA. If a school feels that the NCAA has rules that are not what the school want to follow, they can withdraw and join the NAIA or be an independent school with regard to sports. Belonging to the NCAA is not required to be a successful university.

DG-

I think it all comes down to the individual school--and if the feedback/outrage they get warrants a change..I don't think ANY use of a name constitutes disrespect, but here in CT, the Quinnipiac Braves changed their names to the Bobcats shortly after St. John's changed to the Red Storm..In my opinion--looking at it through an historical perspective, it's ridiculous..How come no one had a problem with it 20 years ago?

UND got a court injunction and is suing the NCAA. The case will be tried later in the year. The Florida Seminoles, Utah Utes and Central Michigan Chippewas received waivers from the NCAA to continue with their nicknames. The bulk of the decision has to do with hosting tournaments and wearing logo uniforms. Problem is, the NCAA pretty much holds a monopoly on big-time college athletics.

"How come no one had a problem with it 20 years ago?"

I'm sure that someone said this after women started protests in order to get the vote, and when civil right protestors became really active in the 50s and 60s.

Somewhere along the line, at some point after 1966 (possibly 1980), the Pekin (IL) Chinks became the Pekin Dragons. I don't know what they re-named their Mascots, the Chink and the Chinkette.

I know nothing about this issue so there may be an answer to my question 'out there' already.

Does it make a difference if it is simply the name of an Indian nation, e.g. 'Dakota' as opposed to some adjective associated with demeaning of native people in the past e.g. 'Savages'?

Because it's going to be tough to sort it all out, if it's just ownership of a name.

The Brits and Dutch, Spanish and French didn't object to naming New World places after Old World places, e.g. New York.

Even Dakota is said by some native North American people to be incorrect: it ought to be "Lakota".

"Brave" is not pejorative, is it?

And suppose a team decides to be proactive and avoid giving offense, but it turns out a lot of Native North American persons like the association of their tradition with modern sports? Would changing the name give offense in that case?

Babs, I agree that it is a tough subject to find a solution that doesn't offend someone or some group. It's hard to say what someone will find offensive. Of course, my example was an extreme one, but surely at one time, someone in Pekin was amazed that someone of Chinese descent found that word offensive. (I looked into Pekin's name change after I posted. It was in 1980, five years after the student body, in response to protests from the , voted to keep the name and the mascots. I also found out that the Pekin area may still have a KKK chapter, and that its newspaper was once owned by the Klan.

Title: ED357357 - The Doublespeaking "Times" of the Klan in the Twenties.
Abstract: A teacher has found a historical study of a newspaper's doublespeak to be consistently effective when it is used in an American studies classroom as a teaching model. As the Ku Klux Klan evolved in the 1920s, so did the Pekin, Illinois, "Daily Times's" deceptive coverage of the Klan. Doublespeak in news reports and editorials was used to deceive readers; doublespeak distorted events, hid purposes, and evaded results. During the first year (1922) of the Klan's ownership of the "Daily Times," the paper used euphemism, jargon and gobbledygook to exaggerate the Klan's popularity and to mislead the community about the Klan's legitimacy and authority. In January 1924, the paper's doublespeak took a new turn. In a series of columns published on the editorial page under the banner of"Klan Komments," several Klan beliefs were announced. The paper used doublespeak in its reporting of the murder trial of D. C. Stephenson, a former Klan leader. The Klan sold the newspaper a few months after the Stephenson case. During the time the Klan owned the paper, censorship was used to omit some reports of Klan-related events. Doublespeak made the Klan's opposition to immigrants, strikes, and bootleggers look legitimate and popular. Doublespeak made the Klan leaders represent order and authority. But even doublespeak did not work in late 1925. When the Klan sold the paper in 1926, however, it still looked like a newspaper.)

Offense, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Here's an example of a mascot I'd think might be considered offensive, but apparently not:

Aniak Halfbreeds (AK) -- Apparently chosen because most of the residents are of mixed heritage: Anglo-American and Inuit. The students have resisted efforts to change the mascot. I've been asked a number of times to add this mascot to this collection. It's here to show that not all distinctive and unique names are universally seen as positive.

*from Marc Sheehan's Distinctive Mascot Collection


Here's an example of how a local minor league baseball team worked with tribal officials in coming up with a new logo:

Nothing like a bit of cooperation to come up with a solution that's agreeable to all. Congress should be so agreeable!

Thanks, Jelp, and you're right that the team and the tribe both worked together. I noted that "Over the past two decades, the team has avoided Native American imagery in its logo, mascots and game presentation, and has received praise from local tribes for its sensitivity to tribal culture." It seems that both factions were reasonable in their approach to solving what could have been a major problem. Compare that "Let's work this out" attitude to Pekin's letting the student body vote on it, as if there was any question how the students were going to vote.

quote:

Even Dakota is said by some native North American people to be incorrect: it ought to be "Lakota".

There are three groups belonging to the same nation: Dakota, Nakota, and Lakota. "Sioux" is a French corruption of an Ojibwa(y) suffix meaning "snakes". The Ojibwa(y) (or Chippewa) were the Sioux's mortal enemies, much like Arapaho/Pawnee, Navaho/Hopi, Algonquin/Iraquois. My proble with all this, is that the NCAA has made exceptions (Florida State, Central Michigan, Utah). So "hurtful and abusive" ends up being in the eye of the beholder. It should be all or nothing to mean anything.