I see constant fire with the people of Isreal and Arab people. The Jewish people are of an obvious different race not to mention the religion clasy. Personally, I would leave Isreal if I were from there. It isn't safe. The country is not poor either. How did they attain Isreal? Why is the US always poking their nose into a foreign domestic problem? ************************************************************************ 03-22-03, 12:29 AM mahal Are you asking how the current government of Israel was formed in the middle of a predominantly Arab region?
03-22-03, 02:48 AM stanbee of course it depends on whom you ask. Goes back to the Bible and the beginnings of Judaism Here's some of the story:
Edited to stop page deformity caused by lengthy continuous text.
[This message was edited by Karrow on 03-25-03 at 04:01 PM.]
03-23-03, 08:11 PM Leppi You ask why do people in israel not just leave b/c it is unsafe? B/c it is our home and we love living there. because we feel a love to our country and it isn't right for us to abondan it in it's time of need. Should New Yorkers all leave New york b/c of 9/11. No, they won't leave b/c it is there home and they love it. Israeli's feel the same way. In fact the number of people moving to israel has increased recently. Israeli's feel a loyalty to thier country and want to be there with thier country to help it out and support it.
03-24-03, 04:34 AM Adi Cat Woman, the 'Israelis' (Jews) are not a different race to the Arabs.
03-24-03, 03:48 PM Buddy Can I ask a question in a question?
Were parts of Iraq once under Israeli control?...or Iran?
03-24-03, 07:29 PM mahal No, Israel has never held more territory beyond where they are now. Even in Biblical times, at their largest, the borders might have reached from the Sinai to Hamath, just north of Damascas, and not far beyond the Jordan River.
There is no territory in Iran or Iraq that has ever been part of Israel.
03-24-03, 07:33 PM mahal
quote:Originally posted by Adi: Cat Woman, the 'Israelis' (Jews) are not a different race to the Arabs.
Even though Hebrew and Arabic are both Semitic languages, the racial connections are extremely old and not significant. The annimosity between Jews and Arabs often has racial undertones.
03-25-03, 08:44 AM Adi "Extremely old and not significant"?
Complete B.S. - the Jews and Arabs are one in the same 'race'. The religious, cultural and political differences are vast, but the genetics are the same. Jews are followers of Judaism, which is a religion and not a blood-type.
[This message was edited by Adi on 03-25-03 at 08:52 AM.]
03-25-03, 09:11 AM methos Adi - science has never been particularly supportive of the concept of race (as it has been extremely difficult to define on either a genetic or physical basis).
Let's take a look at the genetics.
Ashkenazi Jews (the 'European' Jews that make up most of Isreal) are an 85% match with Saudia Arabians... seems significant at first... until you realize that Jews are also an 84% match with Germans and that the margin of error is +/- 3%. (Both of these are based on Y-chromosome analysis )
Your claim that genetics show Jews and Arabs to be the same race isn't supported by the data.
[This message was edited by methos5000 on 03-25-03 at 09:25 AM.]
03-25-03, 10:28 AM Adi Methos
Exactly my point. Being Jewish is not related to blood but religion. You are classified as '100% Jewish' according to Jewish religious beliefs so long as your mother is Jewish. Your father could be a Christian Chinese from Timbuktu, but as long as your mother was of the Jewish faith, then you are Jewish too. The percentages you quote back up my argument. That 'Jews' are as closely related to 'Germans' (whatever kind of 'race' that is supposed to be) and equally to Saudis (whatever kind of 'race' that is supposed to be). German, Saudi is a nationality. 'Jews' have 'interbred' in 'host' countries for generations upon generations (either by mutual consent or forced) the same as everybody else, as families have moved across and within continents over millenia. There is no such thing as a Jewish 'race' or an Arab 'race', though religious or political fanatics would have you believe it is so. By race, I was referring to 'human' race.
03-25-03, 11:33 AM methos Adi - I misunderstood you then. I did not realize you were referring to the fact that race is an arbitrary and pretty much meaningless distinction (which I agree with).
Saying it is not racially motivated is going a bit far though. Perhaps it would be better to say that it is largely based on the perception of race, just as the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany was based largely on the perception of race and persecuted Jews who had abandoned their religion and heritage equally with those who were religious and observed Jewish customs.
03-25-03, 04:20 PM mahal
quote:Originally posted by Adi: "Extremely old and not significant"?
Complete B.S. - the Jews and Arabs are one in the same 'race'. The religious, cultural and political differences are vast, but the genetics are the same. Jews are followers of Judaism, which is a religion and not a blood-type.
[This message was edited by Adi on 03-25-03 at 08:52 AM.]
Neither Arabs nor Jews have had an independant racial identity for more than 2500 years (hence my reference to "extremely old"), but Jews have really never been theorized as being Arabic (Canaanite perhaps, but not Arabic).
Both Hebrew and Aramaic are ancient languages and hale from different regions than Arabic dialects. It's possible that the languages had some common ancestor, for example the Semitic invaders that brought an end to the Sumerian kingdoms about 2000 BC. That would be the nearest ties between Jew and Arab that you can find. (If you follow the Bible, you can put their ties about the same time, both as ancestral races of Abraham through Isaac/Ishmael or through Jacob/Esau about 2000-1800 BC. However, there were Semites before Abraham, even in the Bible.)
None of this has anything to do really with the question (hence my comment "insignificant").
Both the Arab and Jewish "races" have been confused by a number of social influences since 2000 BC:
--Intermarriage --Mass migration (example: the Diaspora) --Mass deportation (example: the exile to Babylon) --Religious conversion (for example, the spread of Islam causing the spread of the Arabic language)
(How do you even know what an "Arab" is if Arabic is spoken from Morocco to Afghanistan, and even Indonesians use Arabic Koran's?)
On the other hand, some social influences stubbornly maintain Jews as an isolated race, like anti-semitism, an issue rarely involving Arabs. In addition, Jews maintain themselves as a seperate people, even living among foriegners as a function of Jewish law. This is not to say that Jews actually are a seperate race genetically, but they most certainly are a seperate race socially.
You cannot maintain that Jews are seperate by religion only, because there are exceptions to that rule, as well. For example, there are many families who celebrate Passover each year and never attend religious services or maintain a Jewish religious belief or way of life. They celebrate the holiday because it was a tradition maintained by the family. You may point out that this is a religious holiday, and therefore the tradition is a religious one. Just keep in mind that these families are surrounded by the Christian religion and neighbors that celebrate Christmas. Why don't they celebrate Christmas, too? Because their family (their blood line) lived differently, and maintained a specifically Jewish component of life, which identifies them as descended by blood from other Jews.
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