On the day after tomorrow four years ago President Bush received a briefing paper with the title "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside the United States."
On the day after tomorrow four years ago President Bush received a briefing paper with the title "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside the United States."
Four years ago, the 9/11 attackers were already in the U.S.
Four years ago, the 9/11 attackers already had their orders to do what they did.
Four years ago, if Bush launched an attack on bin Laden's camp prior to 9/11, you would have thrown just as big of a conniption fit as you currently are throwing all while screaming about pre-emptive strikes being wrong.
Four years ago Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, al Q'aeda's operations chief and 9/11 mastermind was on the loose. Today he is in custody.
Seven years ago Osama bin Laden issued his fatwa declaring it is the duty of Muslims everywhere to kill Americans, including civilians. All Clinton did was continue to shove Big Macs down his gullet and ruin blue dresses.
Seven years ago Clinton's Counter terrorism chief said the number one terror threat the U.S. faced was hackers.
Seven years ago, Clinton was offered to have bin Laden turned over to U.S. authorities. Clinton couldn't tear himself away from yet another Big Mac to accept the offer.
Nine years ago, Clinton was offered to have bin Laden turned over to U.S. authorities twice. Clinton may not have heard the offer from his chomping on yet more Big Macs. *************************************************************** 08-06-05, 06:06 PM AMoore
quote: Originally posted by JohnGalt: Interesting that you accept the historical accuracy of that event, yet you apparently are not convinced of the historical fact that Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds; and despite a video staring you in the face, you also apparently deny the fact that Palestinians openly celebrated the 9/11 attacks, all while blabbering on about the CIA (or is it the Mossad?) beaming their evil mind control rays out to the unsuspecting public. I can only assume that the doctors at the Institute have doubled your medication. I'm glad they let you have your little computer time for your therapy. But I sincerely hope, however, they still keep all the sharp pens and pencils away from you for the moment. You can finish your manifesto in crayon.
Four years ago, the 9/11 attackers were already in the U.S.
Four years ago, the 9/11 attackers already had their orders to do what they did.
Four years ago, if Bush launched an attack on bin Laden's camp prior to 9/11, you would have thrown just as big of a conniption fit as you currently are throwing all while screaming about pre-emptive strikes being wrong.
Four years ago Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, al Q'aeda's operations chief and 9/11 mastermind was on the loose. Today he is in custody.
Seven years ago Osama bin Laden issued his fatwa declaring it is the duty of Muslims everywhere to kill Americans, including civilians. All Clinton did was continue to shove Big Macs down his gullet and ruin blue dresses.
Seven years ago Clinton's Counter terrorism chief said the number one terror threat the U.S. faced was hackers.
Seven years ago, Clinton was offered to have bin Laden turned over to U.S. authorities. Clinton couldn't tear himself away from yet another Big Mac to accept the offer.
Nine years ago, Clinton was offered to have bin Laden turned over to U.S. authorities twice. Clinton may not have heard the offer from his chomping on yet more Big Macs.
I saw the video of "Palestinians celebrating 9-11" at the time, and pointed out to my co-workers that the video was shot before the attacks took place, as was easy to determine from the sun's position. If it weren't you posting, I'd be surprised that you mention it.
The evidence for the use of chemical weapons of the Kurds is pretty weak, the US Army war college published a paper on the subject. Of course, maybe they were trying to cover up that the US was the source of the chemical weapons used, and Saddam was our friend before, during and after the alleged attacks.
But the real criticism here is that Bush isn't doing anything to weaken alQaeda -- rather, he is strengthening it.
Since Bush took office, terrorism is up, world wide, continues to increase, and the Bush administration is doing nothing to apprehend the criminals or dismantle the conspiracies -- all our resources have been diverted to Iraq.
Alan Moore *************************************************************** 08-07-05, 12:28 PM frankvan Did George W. Bush fail to get Osama because he was launching a costly war in the wrong country, or did Clinton fail to get Osama because he had a penchant for fast food and young women ? Are these two leaders equally responsible for the current mess in Iraq, where all the potential Osamas seem to multiply?? Confused Inquiring minds want to know. *************************************************************** 08-07-05, 12:40 PM Fritzzs Clinton had an absolute total chance of getting OBL, but passed it... I'm not totally sure, but I do not believe that Bush had as good of an oportunity as Clinton did... *************************************************************** 08-07-05, 01:37 PM AMoore
quote: Originally posted by Fritzzs: Clinton had an absolute total chance of getting OBL, but passed it... I'm not totally sure, but I do not believe that Bush had as good of an oportunity as Clinton did...
What Bush had, that Clinton did not, for this endeavor, was the total support of the American People, and of people and governments world-wide. He had people in the neighborhood, operating pretty freely. People were not supportive of Clinton, as you may recall.
Bush, however, decided that Iraq was more important. He never told us why Iraq was more important, his excuses were lame even as he made them, and he hasn't come up with anything better since.
Alan Moore *************************************************************** 08-07-05, 02:12 PM newnickname In handing out blame, don't forget that funding, arming and training of Islamic fundamentalists started in a small way with Carter, and intensified under Reagan. Reagan, it seems, in his attempts to make trouble for the Soviet Union, missed a chance to stop Bin Laden before he even started - Reagan's Osama Connection.
On Clinton, George W. and Bin Laden - The Search For Osama *************************************************************** 08-07-05, 03:32 PM Fritzzs
quote: Originally posted by AMoore:
quote: Originally posted by Fritzzs: Clinton had an absolute total chance of getting OBL, but passed it... I'm not totally sure, but I do not believe that Bush had as good of an oportunity as Clinton did...
What Bush had, that Clinton did not, for this endeavor, was the total support of the American People, and of people and governments world-wide. He had people in the neighborhood, operating pretty freely. People were not supportive of Clinton, as you may recall.
Bush, however, decided that Iraq was more important. He never told us why Iraq was more important, his excuses were lame even as he made them, and he hasn't come up with anything better since.
Alan Moore
======================================= Alan... Clinton had him by the little round things and purposly did nothing...Bush having the support of the American people or even the whole world does not even enter the picture.. Bush never had the oportunity that Clinton did....If he had , and he did try, there is no doubt he wouldn't sit on his butt and do nothing.... *************************************************************** 08-07-05, 04:45 PM methos I've rarely seen a thread with so many conspiracy theories.
Alan - Why would Reuters and the like fake the photos?
On the subject of Clinton & bin Laden *************************************************************** 08-07-05, 06:11 PM aminator2002 It was a rumor that the footage of Palestinians celebrating was a fake. But it wasn't.
quote: Originally posted by aminator2002: It was a rumor that the footage of Palestinians celebrating was a fake. But it wasn't.
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Why should anyone be surprised at that? The footage simply shows exactly what the USA is up against. There are people out there, lots of them, who believe that the USA had it coming. Israel and Palestine remain at the heart of Muslim unrest. How invading Iraq and proceeding as has followed there was any step towards addressing that problem is not apparent. *************************************************************** 08-07-05, 11:10 PM AMoore
quote: Originally posted by methos: I've rarely seen a thread with so many conspiracy theories.
Alan - Why would Reuters and the like fake the photos?
On the subject of Clinton & bin Laden
I have no idea. The ones I saw, on 9-11 weren't from Reuters, they were aired by CNN, on a feed originating in Israel. I can guess why Israel would want to create anti-Palestinian feeling in the US, and I can guess why CNN would, on 9-11 air the footage they got before asking questions about it.
I wouldn't be surprised if some Palestinians celebrated. On 9-12, I fingered to the FBI a celebrant right here in the Sunnyvale/Cupertino area. He turned out to be a high-school kid of Persian extraction, and was interviewed, together with his family, by either the FBI or the local police. But if people here can celebrate it, why not there, where we've actually done them serious harm? Have they some obligation to love us, despite the damage we've done them over the years?
Alan Moore *************************************************************** 08-08-05, 09:43 AM methos "The ones I saw, on 9-11 weren't from Reuters, they were aired by CNN, on a feed originating in Israel."
The video they aired by CNN was shot by a Reuters TV crew in East Jerusalem, which is why I mentioned Reuters.
And why would Reuters make it up to begin with, and stand by their footage? *************************************************************** 08-08-05, 01:37 PM Kendor
quote: Originally posted by AMoore: I saw the video of "Palestinians celebrating 9-11" at the time, and pointed out to my co-workers that the video was shot before the attacks took place, as was easy to determine from the sun's position. If it weren't you posting, I'd be surprised that you mention it.
The first part of that statement is ridiculous. Seeing the position of the sun is plausible, but how does one know from what direction the cameras were shooting from? A sun on the horizon could be morning or evening.
The second part seems like a personal attack. (Reads the same as "Since it was you posting, I'm not surprised you mention it"). *************************************************************** 08-08-05, 08:49 PM AMoore
quote: Originally posted by Kendor:
quote: Originally posted by AMoore: I saw the video of "Palestinians celebrating 9-11" at the time, and pointed out to my co-workers that the video was shot before the attacks took place, as was easy to determine from the sun's position. If it weren't you posting, I'd be surprised that you mention it.
The first part of that statement is ridiculous. Seeing the position of the sun is plausible, but how does one know from what direction the cameras were shooting from? A sun on the horizon could be morning or evening.
The second part seems like a personal attack. (Reads the same as "Since it was you posting, I'm not surprised you mention it").
The height of the sun above the horizon is but one clue. The azimuth of the sun is another. All one needs is to recognize a single landmark, and the time of day can be determined pretty accurately.
As for the second part, I don't see how you can read that as an attack. I'd have been astonished to have read the same post from some of the other posters.
Now if you think that JG has the habit of dishonesty, then I can see how you might think of this as an attack...
Alan, if you're sure about the time you should probably try to convince snopes. *************************************************************** 08-08-05, 09:11 PM notinmyname On the other hand some idiot kid with Iranian parents from my son's high school posted how cool Bin Laden was on line. That was interesting. I told the school before my son and his friends could tell the student body. The kid was pulled out for the day and questioned. A sheriff even came by to visit me. The kid would have had the stuffing removed from him if the student body had know, but the reaction of admiration was not unheard of. *************************************************************** 08-08-05, 09:55 PM AMoore
Alan, if you're sure about the time you should probably try to convince snopes.
I could be wrong. In any case, I couldn't prove anything one way or the other after all this time, I just recall my reaction seeing the footage at the time, and knowing the time difference between California and the Middle East. We couldn't have been seeing the footage before it was shot, on the other hand, on 9-11, if it was genuine, we couldn't have been seeing it very long after, either, as it was aired here very soon after the attacks. Even where we had the CCTV installed, not many knew what was going on yet -- I'd been notified by my son who was put on alert soon after the first WTC building was hit. He called me even before putting on his uniform to head to his ship.
And, as has been pointed out, it isn't really relevant in any case. We've given the Palestinians every reason to celebrate our losses. Why they regard as as highly as they do is a mystery to me.
Alan Moore *************************************************************** 08-17-05, 08:59 PM JohnGalt
quote: Originally posted by AMoore: The ones I saw, on 9-11 weren't from Reuters, they were aired by CNN, on a feed originating in Israel. I can guess why Israel would want to create anti-Palestinian feeling in the US...
You have some pretty lousy timing. Because just days after you posted your comment about Bush not doing enough to stop bin Laden, Judicial Watch uncovers these former top secret documents provided to the Clinton administration that state, "[bin Laden] has Wherewithal to Strike U.S. Interests". Judicial Watch's President Tom Fitton says, "These documents prove the Clinton administration knew the danger Osama bin Laden posed to the United States back in 1996 and yet failed to take any meaningful action to stop him."
Wait! Are the Jews responsible for releasing these documents timed to make you look even more crazy than you currently are? What's the grand conspiracy in this case? Wink
Despite all the grasping at straws by the Bush Bashers, here are the simple, undeniable facts: Granted, before 9/11 Bush did not take terrorism as serious as some of us (including myself) have been warning about before 9/11. But Bush was in office for 8 months, while Clinton was in office for 8 years! And during those 8 Clinton years, al-Q'aeda grew and prospered like never before and attacked the U.S. and its Citizens repeatedly. Bin Laden even says that Clinton's cut and run policy of Clinton's infamous "Blackhawk Down" tragedy led bin Laden to continue attacking the U.S., because he believed - due to Clinton's response - that the U.S. was a "paper tiger." And under Clinton it was.
In addition, Bush was dealing with the now infamous "Wall" that Clinton had erected to hide his illegal campaign monetary dealings with China from law enforcement. This Wall hid more than Clinton's crimes. It blocked important information about al-Q'aeda cells operating in the U.S. from being shared with those who needed to know about such info. The info Bush got about bin Laden was, in all likelihood, seriously and fatally limited thanks to Bill Clinton!
Every single one of you Clinton supporters know that is true! Don't try to deny it! You'll only look more foolish. I'll give you that Bush didn't take terrorism as seriously as he should have before 9/11, but there is no doubt that Clinton never took it seriously for 8 long years and Clinton laid the groundwork for the U.S. authorities to be blinded to be unable to uncover the 9/11 plot.
While the final blame goes to those who planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks, on September 11, 2001 the United States paid the price for 8 years of Bill Clinton.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Karrow, 08-17-05 09:11 PM *************************************************************** 08-17-05, 09:37 PM DorianGreyed Not accepting what you say about Clinton, but also not responding to it, I have a few questions, John. Why do you almost never say anything about Reagan, who did nothing when Saddam gassed the Kurds, with our gas? Why do you say the same, i.e.nothing about Bush I, who had four years to respond to Saddam's atrocities? If, in fact, there was any connection between Iraq and al Queada, which has never really been established, surely then the lack of those two presidents' action brings us to 1800 US deaths in Iraq today. After all, had they done their job, terrorist would have known early that the US was no longer going to stand by while they acted, with or without any host country. Why not go back to the early 50s, when we propped the Shah back up on his throne? That surely resulted in the Iran we have today, which surely has affected Islmao-Facists and their ability to recruit and grow. John, I truly feel that you would find one Clinton or another at fault for the hockey strike, baseball's steroid woes, the DH rule, and the next killer tornado. *************************************************************** 08-17-05, 10:20 PM JohnGalt
quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed: Not accepting what you say about Clinton, but also not responding to it...
I'm not surprised.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That was what was going on during the 80s. It has gone on since there have been 3 cavemen. Rightly or wrongly, back then Iran was seen as a much bigger threat to the U.S. than Iraq. It doesn't make it right. But those deals with the devil go on all the time in the world (hey, it even went on between Saddam's Iraq and al-Q'aeda - that is an undeniable fact, so don't try to deny it. It is in the 9/11 Commission's Report, so save you breath and your typing fingers - that goes for all of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) But for all the bad and stupid things that the U.S. does and has done, the good that it does and has done in the world far outweighs any bad, despite the venomous anti-American rhetoric and lies that the nutjobs on the left spew daily from their hate filled loud mouths.
If I were President back then I would not have sold arms to Iraq, so your attempt to make me appear to endorse the gassing of the Kurds (which one of your own - AMoore - still seems to doubt!!! Roll Eyes) won't work. If Reagan took Saddam out back then after he gassed the Kurds (Saddam really did gas the Kurds, AMoore, accept it!!!), you'd still be ******** and moaning about it today. So give it up. Your attempt to go way back is just a desparate attempt to deflect attention away from the one single president most responsible for making America vulnerable to 9/11.
All Presidents make mistakes. I've come right out and said that Bush did not take terrorism seriously until after 9/11. But look in the mirror and ask yourself why is it that you can't even bring yourself to say the same thing about Clinton or accept the simple math that 8 years is more than 8 months. **************************************************** 08-17-05, 10:21 PM JohnGalt
quote: Originally posted by newnickname: What Clinton supporters?
Oh give me a break! Roll Eyes Goodbye. **************************************************** 08-17-05, 10:27 PM DorianGreyed John, several of what you call "Clinton supporters" have actually had some negative things to say about some of the things that he did. But he isn't president any longer, and we tend to concentrate on Now. **************************************************** 08-17-05, 11:16 PM newnickname I did a search on "Clinton" on this site, and got 37 pages. A quick scan through those tells us that Honilov said she liked Kennedy and Clinton (she has good things to say about Bill elsewhere, too) and that Gerry wanted to put him down as a protest write-in vote in a recent election. Someone called Gizmoranger said in 2003 that Clinton was 'one of the great presidents of the 20th century'.
I guess that's two or three Clinton supporters, depending on bow serious Gerry was.
'It didn’t help when Bill Clinton and his wife, Hillary, personally attacked me and my wife and tried to use the police power at their disposal against us. When Clinton all but accused people like myself of encouraging the OKC bombing just because of my listening habits; and when his policies specifically tried to get me fired from my then job; and when he and his wife tired to make my wife a slave to their faulty and illegal “medical takeover scheme” and threaten her with prison time for doing her job, well, in that case, the SOB earned himself my eternal wrath.'[i]
It's just a shot in the dark, but I suspect JG isn't a big Clinton fan.
Is there anyone out there who can't bring him or herself to say that Clinton (like most Americans pre 9/11) didn't take terrorism seriously enough?
Of course he didn't take it seriously enough to prevent 9/11 - but did he take it more seriously than the Republican Congress of the time?
[i]'"We need to keep this country together right now. We need to focus on this terrorism issue," Clinton said during a White House news conference.
But while the president pushed for quick legislation, Republican lawmakers hardened their stance against some of the proposed anti-terrorism measures.
Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, R-Mississippi, doubted that the Senate would rush to action before they recess this weekend. The Senate needs to study all the options, he said, and trying to get it done in the next three days would be tough.'cnn.com (Nine years ago) **************************************************** 08-18-05, 02:13 AM FredPuli The link to the NYT , in JG's own link about secret documents, is illuminating about was was known in 1996 and the views taken. The opinion of a member of the State Department there given is interesting
The Clinton administration did not have one report. Didn't some Administration have some report saying that bin Laden/ al Quaeda/Islamic terrorists would attack the US using hi-jacked planes ? What was it? It said something alomg those lines. Condoleeza Rice was asked about it.It wasn't codenamed 'My Pet Goat', so perhaps whoever the President was wasn't reading it at any material time. It was codenamed something like'Terrorists to attack US using hi-jacked planes now' or something equally cryptic
Back in 1996 bin Laden had never called on Muslims to attack the US. He was, at worst, thought to be a financier of terrorism ( like American people with the IRA, come to think of it Wink) This information was pre-everything. The attacks in East Africa, for example, were not until 1998.
As the president of JudicialWatch himself says , the Clinton administration 'knew the broad outlines of bin Laden's capabilities but unfortunately did nothing about it '
So what was done? Plainly, for all that, getting bin Laden out of the way would have helped, though nobody knew quite how important that would prove to be ( 'broad capabilities', indeed ), he was originally in Sudan and de facto protected by the Sudanese government. So at the time what was done viz to think that keeping him in Afghanistan would make him easier to catch and to keep him on the move i.e not much was done, but then what would anyone think to do given the limited nature of the danger he seemed to be. ( Incidentally, he is still understood to be there, nine years on,so has anyone thought to try to catch him yet? He can still think and direct, as can his deputy with him. Isn't catching him is a greater priority now than back in 1996 ? ) **************************************************** 08-18-05, 12:03 PM JohnGalt
quote: Originally posted by FredPuli: The Clinton administration did not have one report. Didn't some Administration have some report saying that bin Laden/ al Quaeda/Islamic terrorists would attack the US using hi-jacked planes ? What was it? It said something alomg those lines.
The possibility of just such an atttack was first learned when Bill Clinton was the President. Granted, the lack of specifics (when, which planes, etc.) would make defending against such attacks rather difficult. The racial profiling at airports of Muslim looking men between the ages of 18 and 35 would have probably been of some help. But the political left would never agree to such a tactic. Allowing commercial airline pilots to be armed would be another thing that could have been done that could have helped stop such attacks. Again, the political left would have had a conniption fit at that suggestion as well. In fact, any real strategy that actually would have help stop such attacks would have been roundly opposed by the very same Bush Bashers of the left.
quote: Originally posted by FredPuli: Back in 1996 bin Laden had never called on Muslims to attack the US. He was, at worst, thought to be a financier of terrorism ( like American people with the IRA, come to think of it Wink) This information was pre-everything. The attacks in East Africa, for example, were not until 1998.
That statement is factually incorrect and misleading to boot. It is incorrect because Osama bin Laden issued his first fatwa against the United States in 1996. President Clinton's own FBI Director Louis Freeh testified to that fact.
It is misleading because you left out: # The 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center which killed 6 and injured 1,000. This happened 36 days after Bill Clinton assumed the Office of President. Bill Clinton never visited the site of this first foreign attack on U.S. soil since WWII. This man who claimed to feel everyone's pain, also never attended a single funeral of any of the victims.
# The 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military personnel.
# The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel. **************************************************** 08-18-05, 02:19 PM FredPuli Noted, JG.
The point may be special pleading, but the fatwa of August 23rd 1996 did not threaten the United States; that is it makes no threat against the United States, the place. I think this is what is meant by the writers in the NYT article. The fatwa is heavy reading but ploughing through it shows that to be the case, strictly speaking.Its prime concern is Saudi Arabia which regime bin Laden plainly regarded as as bad as the USA. His complaint, apart from the regime not being sufficiently Islamic for his liking, is that the House of Saud invites Crusaders (Americans) to defend Mecca by putting bases in the country ( the land of the two holy places)
He goes on to complain of the presence of US forces on the land sea and air of the 'Islamic Gulf'.He calls upon Muslims to defend their Islamic lands.
Lovers of the idea that bin Laden was in league with Saddam might like this: "The children of Iraq are our children. You, the USA, together with the Saudi regime, are responsible for the shedding of the blood of these innocent children"
So you see, he did find common cause Smile **************************************************** 08-18-05, 03:00 PM JohnGalt For all this talk about documents from Bush's Briefing Paper to the newly declassified Clinton State Dept. Documents, bin Laden's fatwas (are they in document form? Smile), the documents that I would really like to take a look at are the multiple documents regarding Clinton and terrorism that Clinton's National Security Advisor, Sandy (Pants) Berger stole and then destroyed. Clinton went to great lengths to make sure no one saw some obviously very damning documents. What were in those documents? Why were they destroyed? Why did 'Pants' Berger risk going to prison to hide what was in those documents? **************************************************** 08-18-05, 07:47 PM JohnGalt
quote: Originally posted by AMoore: ...the Bush administration is doing nothing to apprehend the criminals or dismantle the conspiracies -- all our resources have been diverted to Iraq.
You seem to be doing a good job of spreading the wild wacked-out conspiracy theories. Smile
As for apprehending the criminals, despite your preposterous and false claim that Iraq has diverted "all our resources" none of the terrorists on the following list were captured or killed in Iraq. I went through and did my best at removing all the al-Q'aeda terrorists captured or killed in Iraq. What follows is a partial list of al-Q'aeda and other Islamo fascist terrorists captured or killed since September 2001, thanks to the leadership of President George W. Bush.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 9/11 mastermind Apprehended Khaled al-Harbi Bin Laden Associate, man on 9/11 video Apprehended Thamr Mohammad Sharifi Close associate of ObL Apprehended Tawfiq Attash Khallad Leader of USS Cole Bombint and Operations Chief Apprehended Rakan Mohsen Muhammad Al-Saikhan Involved in attacks on the USS Cole Dead Abdallah Tabarak Tora Bora CINC Apprehended Sheikh Ibn al-Liby Terrorist Training Camp Commander Apprehended Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi Terrorist Training Camp Commander Apprehended Qari Saifullah Akhtar Terrorist Training Camp Commander Apprehended Sheikh Saiid al-Masri Head of the Financial Committee Apprehended Khalil Saeed Deek Financier Apprehended Wan min Wan Mat Financier Apprehended Abdul Rahim RiyadhFinancier Apprehended Abu Salah al-Yemeni Financier Dead Hamza al-Qatari Financier Dead Sheik Mohammed Al Hasan Al-Moayad Financier pprehended Mohammed Mohsen Yahya Zayed Financier Apprehended Mamoun Darkazanli Financier Apprehended Abu Yasir al-Jaziri Financier Apprehended Abdallah Muhammed Rajab Abd al-Rahman Financier Apprehended Abdelwahid Ahmed Alwan Operations Chief Dead Saif al-Islam al-Masri Operations Chief Apprehended Munib Zahiragic Financier/Money Launderer Apprehended Omar al-Farouq Operations Chief Apprehended Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Masri Head of Supporters of Sha’riah Apprehended Adil al-Jaziri Member Apprehended Sheikh Abu Qatada al-Philisteeni Spokesman Apprehended Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan AQ Computer & Communications expert Apprehended Samih Ossaily AQ fundraiser Apprehended Aziz Nassour AQ fundraiser Apprehended Ibrahim Bah AQ fundraiser Apprehended Enaam Arnaout FundraiserApprehended Fathur Rahman al-Ghozi Terrorist Training Camp Commander Dead Abu Ubaida Terrorist Training Camp Commander Dead Rifa'i Taha Musa Jemma al-Islamiyyah Secretary-General Dead Mohammed Atef Supreme Military Commander Dead Abu Zubaydah Global Operations Chief Apprehended Abu Jafar al-Jaziri Deputy Global Operations Chief Dead Abu Zubair al-Haili North African Operations Chief Apprehended Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri Chief of Operations-Yemen Apprehended Tariq Anwar al-Sayyid Ahmad Balkans Operations Chief Dead Mohammed Salah Senior Explosive Expert, Central African Operations Chief Apprehended Yasser al-Jaziri Deputy Head of Explosives Training Apprehended Abdul Rahim al-Sharqawi Logistics Chief Apprehended Zaid Khayr Operations Chief Apprehended Safwan al-Hasham Deputy communications chief Apprehended Ahmed Said al-Khadr Al-Qaeda financier and ruling council member Dead Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Emir of the Martyrdom Battalion Apprehended Hassan Ghul Zarqawi's courier to bin Laden, KSM's aide Apprehended Mosabir Aroochi aka Masrab Aroochi KSM's nephew- Pakistan operations chief Apprehended Abu Faraj al-Liby Libyan Al-Qaeda Planner Apprehended Hambali (Nurjaman Riduan Isamuddin) South East Asia Operations Chief Apprehended Qaed Salim Sinan al-Harethi Yemen Operations Chief Dead Mohammed Hamdi al-Ahdal Yemeni conspirator in Cole Bombing Apprehended Mohsen al-Fadli Kuwait Commander-in-Chief Apprehended Imam Samudra Java Commander-in-Chief Apprehended Mas Selamat Kastari Singapore Commander-in-Chief Apprehended Ahmed Zaoui Assassin-Algeria, Burkina Faso, and Afghanistan Apprehended Essid Sami ben Khemais Southern Europe Commander-in-Chief Apprehended Lionel Dumont France Operations Chief-Running ops in Japan Apprehended Mohammed Omar Abdel Rahman Military Commander Apprehended Ahmed Omar Abdel Rahman Military Commander Apprehended Faraj Ahmad Najmuddin aka Mullah Krekar Leader of Ansar al-Islam Apprehended Aso Hawleri Ansar al-Islam military commander Apprehended Hassan Ibrahim Farhan Senior aide to AMZ Killed Omar Sayel Plotted to attack western nightclubs in Jordan Apprehended Muawiyah Muhanna Planned to Attack US and Israeli targets in Jordan Apprehended Ahmed Mohammed Ali Ayed Planned to Attack US and Israeli targets in Jordan Apprehended Yasser Fathi Ibrahim Laurence Foley murder Apprehended Salem Saad Salem bin Soued Laurence Foley murder Apprehended Jamil Mohammed Kutkut Plotted to kill American archeologists in Jordan Apprehended Ibrahim Mohammed Zein al-Abedeen Plotted to kill Americans in Jordan Apprehended Abdul Aziz Isa Abdul Mohsen Al-Muqrin One of AQ's top commanders in SA. Dead Khaled Ali ibn Ali Haj Chief of Al-Qaida operations in the Gulf Dead Abdul Kareem Al-Tahami Al-Majati Madrid & Casablanca bombings Dead Saud Hamoud Obaid Al-Qutaini Al-Otaibi Head of AQ in Saudi, trained at OBL's camps Dead Ahmed Abdul Rahman Saqer Al-Fadhli Extremist Dead Sultan Bajad Saadoun Al-Otaibi Al-Qaeda Ideologue Dead Faisal Abdul Rahman Abdullah Al-Dakheel Muqrin's top deputy Dead Faris Ahmed Jamaan Al-Shuwail Al-Zahrani Extremist cleric Apprehended Khaled Mubarak Habibullah Al-Qurashi Extremist Dead Isa Saad Muhammad ibn Aushen Extremist cleric Dead Mustafa Ibrahim Muhammad Mubaraki Extremist cleric Dead Abdul Majeed Muhammad Abdullah Al-Munie Extremist cleric Dead Othman Hadi Al-Maqbool Al-Amri "Awakening Sheikhs" Apprehended Aamir Mohsen Mureef Al-Zaidan Al-Shahri Extremist cleric Dead Abdullah Muhammad Rashid Al-Rashoud Extremist cleric Dead Abdul Rahman Muhammad Muhammad Yazji Spokesman Dead Ibrahim Ahmed Abdel Majeed Al Reemy Yemeni leader of AQ in Saudi Arabia Dead Thamer Khamis Abdel Aziz Al Khamis Saudi AQ representative on the internet Dead Saud Abdullah Al Jadhii Bombed a Saudi security building in April 2004 Dead Khaled Ahmed Mohammed bin Sanan Saudi AQ operative involved in Dec 2004 bombings Dead Badr Al Sobeii Saudi AQ operative involved in Dec 2004 bombings Dead Mohammed Abdullah Saleh Al Mohsen Saudi AQ operative involved in Dec 2004 bombings Dead Mohammed Suleiman Ibrahim Al Wakeel Saudi AQ operative involved in Dec 2004 bombings Dead Abdul Wahab Adel Abdul Wahab Al Sheridah Saudi AQ operative involved in Dec 2004 bombings Dead Khalid Jehani Saudi Arabia operations chief Dead Yousef al-Ayyeri al-Qaeda ideologue Dead Ali Abd al-Rahman al-Faqasi al-Ghamdi Attacks on Americans Apprehended Fayez bin Awad Juhaini Jeddah embassy attacker Apprehended Eid bin Dakhil Allah Juhaini Jeddah embassy attacker Apprehended Hassan bin Hamid Hazimi Jeddah embassy attacker Apprehended Qasim al-Raimi aka Qasim al-Taizi AQ's #2 in Yemen Apprehended Zubayr (Zubair) al-Rimi The chief deputy of al-Ghamdi Dead Hani Al-Sayegh Khobar bomber-Hizballah Apprehended **************************************************** 08-18-05, 07:53 PM DorianGreyed John, I am curious - How many on that list were actually killed or captured by US and only US forces? **************************************************** 08-18-05, 08:48 PM newnickname I guess there isn't a list of those who have joined al Qaeda (or taken up a position in al Qaeda's loose structure, or however we should say it) since and/or because of the invasion of Iraq. Even if there was, it'd be too long to post, wouldn't it?
"According to US assessments, the turmoil in Iraq has replaced the still-simmering conflict in Afghanistan as the chief recruiter of international jihadis. Analysts say anger over the conflict is helping to spread the ideology of global jihad to young Muslims in Europe.
But it is the confluence of America's decision to invade Iraq and new communication technologies that has created the most powerful machine for recruiting new terrorists in history, says Evan Kohlmann, an American terrorism consultant who has tracked jihadi websites since the late 1990s.
America and its allies are now facing a multifront war: In Iraq, which is turning out a new generation of Arab jihadis; in Europe, where Muslim admirers of Al Qaeda are embracing the cause because of anger over the Iraq war; and on the Internet, which has become a megaphone for radical jihadi ideologies." www.csmonitor.com
Think how much more impressive John's list would be if it represented a weakened al Qaeda - which it maybe would, had Bush not invaded Iraq. **************************************************** 08-18-05, 11:20 PM JohnGalt
quote: Originally posted by DorianGreyed: John, I am curious - How many on that list were actually killed or captured by US and only US forces?
Gasp! You mean captured... unilaterally? Oh the horror! How dare you even think such a thing! Cooperation among nations is the way to go, right? Isn't that what you and others on your side of this debate have been preaching? Smile Wink
The capture and/or killing of the terrorists listed above represent not only many by the U.S., but also by a wide variety of nations - including nations that have never before in history cooperated with the United States in such a manner. For all Bush's faults, his ability to convince so many Muslim nations to join in this fight is incredible. Granted, it may be an uneasy cooperation in some cases - nothing is perfect. But the majority of the Muslim states are actively cooperating with the United States in this global war on terror. **************************************************** 08-18-05, 11:49 PM AMoore
quote: Originally posted by JohnGalt:
quote: Originally posted by AMoore: ...the Bush administration is doing nothing to apprehend the criminals or dismantle the conspiracies -- all our resources have been diverted to Iraq.
You seem to be doing a good job of spreading the wild wacked-out conspiracy theories. Smile
As for apprehending the criminals, despite your preposterous and false claim that Iraq has diverted "all our resources" none of the terrorists on the following list were captured or killed in Iraq. I went through and did my best at removing all the al-Q'aeda terrorists captured or killed in Iraq. What follows is a partial list of al-Q'aeda and other Islamo fascist terrorists captured or killed since September 2001, thanks to the leadership of President George W. Bush.
- snip the list of 106 -
So, at the cost of creating thousands of terrorists, he's managed to have about 100 arrested or killed. At this rate, the world will be populated primarily by alQaeda members in just a few decades.
And, I note that of the FBI's list of most wanted terrorists produced in the wake of 9-11, we've managed to remove only one or two -- and those before the Iraq invasion.
At the present time, the Bush administration is creating terrorists far faster than it is removing them -- a trend that seems to increase with each passing day. alQaeda is active in more countries now than before 9-11 and more than before the Iraq invasion. The Bush administration has done a fine job of limiting and infringing our civil rights, but they haven't managed to do much about terrorism, as indicated by the dramatic increase in terrorist attacks world-wide since Bush came into office, reversing the long-term downward trend.
Alan Moore
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,
Posts: 2012 | Location: USA | Registered: 10-05-03
