When the spaniards came over from Spain to Mexico, they mixed with the indians very well. Because of this, the mestizos came to be. You can tell the difference between a mestizo, a spaniard, and an indian.

Why then, if the English came over to America and colonized there, why didn´t they mix as well with the indians like the spaniards?? All the people here look either indians or english?

Is there any reason for that?

My impression is that the Puritans and Quakers who colonized No. America where rather straight laced and brought women with them in contrast to the Spanish who brought more soldiers and few women.

I have met some Mexicans who are in fact primarily European (Spanish) genetically.

"The Spanish, French, and Dutch wanted to find precious metals in the Americas, to trade with the indigenous peoples, and to convert them to Christianity. Their agricultural colonies in the Caribbean, Mexico, and South America were worked by African slaves and by unwilling native peoples, and relatively few Europeans settled permanently in those places. In contrast, England, a latecomer to New World colonization, sent more people to the Americas than other European nations—about 400,000 in the 17th century—and established more permanent agricultural colonies."

"The fortunes of the Puritans depended on the religious preferences of English monarchs. Queen Mary I, who ruled from 1553 to 1558, was a committed Catholic who tried to roll back the tide of religious change; she executed hundreds of Protestants and chased many more into exile."

http://
encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_1741500823_2/United_States_(History).html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Karrow,

quote:

Originally posted by Julieta Martinez:
When the spaniards came over from Spain to Mexico, they mixed with the indians very well. Because of this, the mestizos came to be. You can tell the difference between a mestizo, a spaniard, and an indian.

Why then, if the English came over to America and colonized there, why didn´t they mix as well with the indians like the spaniards?? All the people here look either indians or english?

Is there any reason for that?

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Being very "proper" and straight lace, I would say that they did not believe in interracial marriage... No doubt there was some, but very few....

The difference lies more in culture. Mexico (as example) adopted the Catholic Church, many Mexicans are “pure blooded” Native American, but have adopted the culture of the Spaniards (Still more did not adopt it and maintained their cultural individuality). Northward, in the USA many “Indians” fought long and hard to maintain their cultural identity – i.e. Tribes. The Spanish way of dealing with the natives was not the US way. Instead of isolating and placing tribes on Reservation, Spanish influence was more bent on absorbing/dominating the natives into the Spanish culture. Thus there was more mixing of the two cultures South than North. The Protestants of the US were not as compelled to convert as the Catholics who have a long history of assimilating peoples and molding the native traditions into its teachings to accommodate. Protestants are more ridged and less likely to mold itself, thus Natives are less likely to convert.

US method was to fight for a long time, then give over land to the Native American. We created ‘reservations’ which “isolated” the Native Americans from the English – thus maintaining their cultural traditions and identity. Timing may have played a big roll in this, that and the intent of the settlers. Mind the Spanish came in looking to conquer and get gold they did whole sale slaughter right from the start – While northward in the USA the settlers tried to live relatively peacefully with the Natives. Puritans came in to settle “peacefully” in an attempt to have their own cultural identity (Religious freedom). That influence had a large impact on how the two cultures influenced and melded with the natives initially, setting a precedence which continued for a few generations.

And then there is the small fact that the USA has a fairly large immigration rate, and has had for a long time. Unlike say Mexico which not as many people immigrated to it (as compared to the USA). Thus Mexico has had a longer more stable (more closed) population to intermix, while the USA has its regular injection of “pure” European races. Remember the Irish Immigration, the Potato Famine, etc? Immigrants in the USA tend to build their cultural communities maintaining their cultural identity, in cities you find this in Little Italy, China Town, etc. Ghettos, Districts, etc reflect specific cultural identities in America. Even taking the USA state by state you find that The Dutch are in one place, the Germans in another, the English over there.

In places like the South West (Arizona, New Mexico, etc) you do find that there are more “English/Native American” mixes which are often confused with Latinos (Mexican).

The Spanish didn’t really mix well with the Native Americans either. It only appears so since the Catholic influence of large families had a huge impact on the breeding practices of the Spanish/Native American mixed people – also a lot of cultural stereotype is at work were we in the USA think that all Mexicans are Latino/Chicano. The fact is that there are many Native American Tribes in Mexico and further south, “Pure Tribes” of Native Americans living, working and doing their thing.

As like in the USA, Native Americans are maintaining their cultural identities by not mixing in the cities of the settlers. Native Americans tend to stick close to their “Tribal Lands” Those who do venture forth do so for education but usually nearly always return home to the “reservation” or Tribal Land.

You Take New York City as a comparison. You would be hard pressed to find a “pure” Native American community with in that city; however European and Mixed peoples are in abundance. Take Mexico City, the same thing applies, plenty of Spanish and Mixed peoples, but few Native Americans.

Usually those who emigrate from Mexico are doing so from the cities, not from the Tribal lands. Like we never really hear of mass migration of Native American Indians from one state to another, this is due to their connectedness to the land – a concept alien to Europeans who view land as something to own and subdue. This connection to the land has a huge impact on how Native Americans identify themselves and how they view the settlers as well and their willingness to interbreed with the white man.

At least one member of my family mixed well with the natives... too bad so many other people were hell bent on killing them off. My greatX3 grandmother was rescued from the trail of tears and married to my greatx3 grandfather. Here's my ideas:

Basically my idea is that the Spaniards didn't really mix better, but that the situations were quite different.

1. As NIMN points out - more people and more families to settle permanently. Sending over a large number of people to live off the land with limited resources clashed very strongly with the Native American way of life. Land ownership is the essential thing for folks from the British Isles and that in addition to religious reasons was a major reason for people to come over to the British colonies. The Spanish were interested in forming the Natives into loyal Catholic subjects, stealing their resources and going back to Spain... not in settling the land and dividing it up.

2. The Spainards as I understand it, did not necessarily mix better. They "mixed" by raping and taking advantage of indigenous women. I do not think their attitude was that much different than their northern European counterparts, but they were without their families and wives so the men took advantage of the women that were available. (this is not well founded on research but I do remember reading about Spaniards raping the locals) I believe that because they didn't kill all the natives or put them in camps, a society of mixed people was founded. From what I gather there is still some class division in South American countries and there seems to be some racism going on... i.e. Fair skin spanish decescendants still seem to be the elite class.

3. Spanish were very Catholic whereas the British settlers were various religions of different theological basis. Because their goal was to convert many to Catholicism and save them, they may not have had the same superior attitude as some of the Protestant counterparts to the north. The Protestant British settlers were not so concerned with converting Native Americans as they were with finally having the freedom to practice their own religion... they did convert some natives but it certainly didn't make them equal in the eyes of the people that thought they were savages. The Catholics may have been able to see a fellow Catholic in an equal light and find a beautiful converted indigenous girl to be perfectly acceptable as a wife. Some of the Protestants like my greatx3 grandfather felt the same way.

4. I don't think there is any mistaking that both the English and the Spanish thought they were superior to the indigenous people. Manifest Destiny for the British and years as the ruling force in the world for the Spanish tended to give them a superiority complex.

5. I think timing played an important part. The sun was setting on the Spanish Empire and rising on the British Empire. The foothold established by the English before the revolution was pretty substantial whereas the Spanish royals were starting to struggle to send expeditions.

6. This theory is by far my weakest but I think it may be because Spain was a more pleasant place to live so people weren't pouring out of it to leave for good. They went on voyages with intent to return rather than trying to escape to find a new life. The English were looking at the new land as their promised land and weren't about to let some "Indians" get in their way.

The annihilation of the Aztec and Incan Empires by the Spainards doesn't speak to highly to the idea that the spanish mixed better with the natives than the Northern Europeans that settled North America.

I think a case could be made that the Empires to the SOuth actually helped the people of those areas more than the tribal life of the North American Indians because the Spanish could focus on overthrowing power structure instead of obliterating all the people.