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Diamond Enthusiast

Picture of bedstor
Posted
Here's a good poser...
When the settlers first met the Native Americans did they always refer to the Head man as Chief or Chef? which means the same (leader) in the French Language which suggests the French met them first? Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 13330 | Location: 6 miles west of Wigan UK | Registered: 06-05-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond
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And did they answer "How !" or "Comment !" ?
 
Posts: 8360 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond Enthusiast

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It is possible the the French met the Indians first.

From the etymology dictionary:

1297 (n. and adj.), from O.Fr. chief "leader, ruler, head" (of something), from L.L. capum, from L. caput "head" (see head).

This word originates before 1492. Columbus was not the first one to discover America. He just rediscovered it.
 
Posts: 5305 | Location: The Motor City | Registered: 06-03-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond
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I disagree with the analysis of the etymology. The date of first recorded use in English was before either the English or the French met the Native Americans. This shows that it was common to both languages in the general sense of leader (as it is today in chief executive officer, commander in chief, police chief, etc.) before it could have been applied to Native Americans by either culture.
 
Posts: 5891 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 06-13-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond
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As I said above, the word was common to both languages before either culture met the Native Americans, so the facts that they both have the word and that it came from French to English (as so many words did) doesn't say anything about who first used it to refer to the head of a Native American tribe.

Do/did the French actually use the word in that way?

Do/did the Spanish use chefe in that way? Although other Europeans landed in the Americas earlier, Columbus's journey for Spain was the first time Native Americans met anyone who spoke a language with Latin roots.

And there's always the Portuguese jefe.
 
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Other way around, methos: Spanish "jefe," Portuguese "chefe."
 
Posts: 7646 | Location: On Vacation | Registered: 06-06-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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As for Columbus and the other Spanish explorers and conquistadores, I have to check their journals and letters to see what term they used.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by juanruiz:
Other way around, methos: Spanish "jefe," Portuguese "chefe."
Whoops. Thanks Juan.
 
Posts: 5891 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 06-13-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Diamond Enthusiast

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Seeing as there is a spot of confusion on this with similar languages coming up with a similar sounding word. I think they ended up eventually with a Patois word which corresponded very close to Chef /Chief and got Anglicised in Print as such in the 19th century? WinkSee M/W(definition 2)re:Anglicised
 
Posts: 13330 | Location: 6 miles west of Wigan UK | Registered: 06-05-02Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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In looking over Spanish journals and correspondence of the period, it seems that they tended to use the indigenous word cacique to refer to tribal leaders.
 
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