Next time you are washing your hands and complain because the water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how things used to be...
Here are some facts about the 1500s:
Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May and still smelled pretty good by June. However, they were starting to smell so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor. Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting married.
Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children-last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it - hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."
Houses had thatched roofs-thick straw-piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the dogs, cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof - hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs"
There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could really mess up your nice clean bed - hence, a bed with big posts And a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That's how canopy beds came into existence.
The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt, hence the saying "dirt poor."
The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on the floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they kept adding more thresh until when you opened the door it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entranceway - hence, a "thresh hold."
In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat. They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes the stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while - hence the rhyme, "Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old."
Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth that a man "could bring home the bacon. "They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around and "chew the fat."
Those with money had plates made of pewter. Food with high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning and death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.
Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top, or "upper crust."
Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky. The combination would sometimes knock them out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up - hence the custom of holding a "wake."
England is old and small and the local folks started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a "bone-house" and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the "graveyard shift") to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be "saved by the bell" or was considered a "dead ringer."
And that's the truth... Anyone have any interesting historical things to add?
And Methos's info was even more fun! Even though I now see Wildflower's source to be inaccurate, this has been a good chance to look behind some everyday sayings!
Posts: 2243 | Location: Western United States | Registered: 06-03-02
I'm no history pro. What's wrong with the so called facts about the 1500's? I know a few are true. They did tie a string to a bell on newly buried bodies. There was a grave watcher to insure no one was buried alive.
I did get this in an e-mail forward though. Sounded like it made sense to me!
Wildflower - I went to Snopes.com and typed in "1500s" ... First hit was the link I provided. Despite what you 'know,' essentially none of this is true (give the link a read for the details). Don't feel bad though, a lot of what we think we know turns out to be false. Some of it even makes into the media and even text books. The most recent example of that is the rehashing of the myth of the baby boom caused by the last major NYC power outage. It turns out that there wasn't one, but that didn't stop the media from mentioning it when reporting on the current situation.
Now I'm really confused! How are we to know fact from fiction or old wives tales if history writings are not accurate at all? Where do we find the truth of past ways of living that are not even comprehensible to the people of today without technology, antibiotics, and other good stuff that we now have? Where is a good source for information? The age of technology wasn't until the 1800's. So, how did the common person live?
Yes, I did get this information in an e-mail forward from a good friend. But, I know for fact that I have read about British grave watchers that listened for bells on newly buried dead. Is this fact or fiction?
The only other thing I know is from Braveheart! I realize movies and reality are not the same thing. They did live in straw like roof homes. There were animals running about. There were small communities of farming peasant people, which where probably the majority if living on a farm or living in the city, just as it is today. We are nothing more.
Technology has boosted our lifestyles and kept us on the time clock requiring a lot of education to make a living wage. What's the difference? If there wasn't much to learn or benefit from, why get the education? People in rural Kentucky still see it that way. They have to move from their homes to other areas that just aren't home.
Information overload! Where is a true source for correct information if this e-mail does not have truth to it. I have to believe it does. People did not live like we do today in the 15th century. So, how did the common working person or those in rural areas live?
Give me a good source for correct information and I might buy it that these things are just myth. They make too much sense to be myth. Raining cats and dogs? Where did that come from? We all have heard that saying if we don't say it ourselves. What is the truth? How did that saying get started?
The hoax e-mail sounds like a very reasonable explanation to me and I'm not one to buy any bull. It has to make sense. This does. But that site offers no counter explanation for this at all.
I'm not trying to be a rock head here at all. I got an e-mail I found interesting from a historical stand point and passed it to others on the site. I just want to know what the real truth is. That's it.
Wildflower - I directed you to a very good source in my first post. When I was referring to textbooks containing false knowledge that we all know, I was referring to high school and earlier science texts, which often contain many inaccuracies.
I have found the site that I gave above to be a reliable source over and over. They document their sources, so you can check up on them.
Contrary to what you say, that site offers 'counter information' to all of it, and answers all the questions you asked in your last post. Give it a read.
Of course life was different in the 16th century, but that doesn't mean that this email is correct.
As far as it making sense, some of it does sound pretty believable, but think about a couple of them. Do you really believe that dogs climbed up into the roof? If a threshold were really a thresh hold, there would need to be somethign called a thresh. There's no such thing. The rest, I think, are more or less believable, but that doesn't make them true. Go to the site I provided, give it a good read, it explains it all.
[This message was edited by methos5000 on 08-17-03 at 09:43 AM.]
Whenever I get an email forwarded with a bunch of facts I usually go do a search at snopes.com
They do all the work. Then I forward the site to the person who sent the email. I hope that people will eventually think before they forward and go check snopes out first.
Posts: 3056 | Location: USA | Registered: 06-04-02
Whoever thought up the one about cats and dogs getting in to a thatched roof has never seen a thatched roof, that's for sure !It is not and never was some loose pile of straw. It is of straw or reeds laid lengthwise and rammed hard packed and tied down.In this village there are plenty of them, as there are all over the area,and many of the buildings date from the C15.The reed ones last 70 years or more; the straw ones less; but no cat ever got into one of either!
The bath one is true in that children had to wait their turn. Just how vast did the writer think the bath must've been?How could a mother lose a baby while bathing it? If you drop one it drowns! There is an old comic music hall song though:
"My baby has gone down the plug-hole, My baby has gone down the plug" about a misfortune beralling a very thin baby " It was ever so thin/ Just like a skeleton covered in skin" and whose fate is lamented. The mother is ultimately consoled with the memorable words that the baby was "not LOST, but 'gone before' !"
I think the devices for sounding alarms from a wrongly buried person are mostly from the Victorian Age. I have seen many drawings of such devices, and they were all from that age.
Posts: 17271 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
Sorry guys! I didn't mean to do anything wrong. I found the forward interesting and thought I would share. I didn't even know about the site to see about e-mail forwards. It came from the mother of a good friend of mine. I wouldn't want to offend her by debating facts. She sent it with good intent. I posted with good intent. I appologize if the facts are wrong. You have to admit, they do make sense though!!
Dorian, are you saying you have read about grave watchers just in case someone newly buried was alive? I have read about it a historical perspective about the bell. It is true or not?
No, what I saw were drawings, like patent applications, for various devices tyhat enabled a wrongly buried person (i.e. alive) to sound an alarm above ground. This was in the last half of the 19th Century. Yes, there were such devices. As far as watchers, I do not know, but surely in VIctorian England, there were enough poor people that a cemetary could hire one very cheaply.
Posts: 17271 | Location: Lincoln Place, Granite City, IL, USA | Registered: 06-03-02
Wildflower - again, please head over to the link I provided. I'm sure you'll find it interesting. It answers all the questions you've been asking, including the one about gravewatchers and the bell.
All of this is summarized from the link: There were not anywhere near the number of live burials that this article claims. Wakes were partly to make sure that the body didn't wake up, but were mostly to prevent animals from eating it. The bell device, and others, were real, but were not used until the 19th century. The term 'graveyard shift' was first recorded in 1907, and did not arise this way. 'Saved by the bell' is a boxing term originating in the 1930s. Dead ringer is from the late 19th century and has nothing to do with premature burials. It means an exact match. Dead is used in the same way as 'dead on,' and a ringer was a better horse placed in a race in place of a nag (we still use it this way to refer to an expert at a competition who pretends not to be at first or a player that is snuck into a league they are too good for).
All your other questions are answered in the link. Please go read it.
The Victorians certainly had patented devices of some complexity so that the person could signal from the coffin, even underground, but it is doubtful whether more than a handful of eccentrics ever had one. The fear was less to do with medical knowledge or astonishing ignorance of observers than with unscrupulous relatives and doctors who might have a comatose, perhaps drugged, person buried alive quickly, with no suspicious witnesses and for their own gain; with quaint logic, it could be argued that if relatives refused the person's wishes for such a device then they had something to hide.
I have never heard of a corpse being belled or fitted in this way before then, in the UK at least.It does not seem a likely concern. If the body is left it gets rigor mortis and other signs of decay quite quickly; the rigor mortis within hours; a 'stiff' 'corpse' has never been known to recover life. Everybody knew that !
No, the Victorians, particularly in Scotland, were concerned with the corpse being exhumed and sold for dissection at teaching hospitals. That certainly led to measures of security such as would normally be reserved for more traditional valuables; patrols and heavy iron covers and railings over graves etc .Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable says that 'graveyard shift' is possibly a joking reference to having such patrols; the phrase was used by workers in factories for the shift covering the hours at dead of night.
( The murderers Burke and Hare in Scotland avoided even that; they simply killed vagrants or other untraceables instead and sold them, almost to order! One escaped conviction because he testified against the other; the latter was executed and his body sent for ..... dissection!)
