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Diamond
Enthusiast
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Something to ponder about magnetic repulsion - magnets lose their power when placed in close proximity with other magnets.
It's all well and good to not let your creativity get bound up with rules, but the principles of motion have been very well tested at this point. Magnetic research is also very well tested and I'm reasonably sure they are way past your theories - I suggest you take a look at some of the magnet research that has been done already. I'm sure you are not the first to think that opposing force of magnets could be harnessed. I'm sure it is a useful technology actually, but it will not create a perpetual motion machine. I believe electromagnets are used to keep high speed devices free of friction. I think this is used in high speed centrifuges.
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Diamond
Enthusiast
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quote: Originally posted by aminator2002:
I believe electromagnets are used to keep high speed devices free of friction.
Just a bit!: Magnetic transport |
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| Posts: 8356 | Location: Newmarket, UK/ Antibes, S.France | Registered: 07-14-02 | |
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quote: Originally posted by aminator2002:
Something to ponder about magnetic repulsion - magnets lose their power when placed in close proximity with other magnets.
It's all well and good to not let your creativity get bound up with rules, but the principles of motion have been very well tested at this point. Magnetic research is also very well tested and I'm reasonably sure they are way past your theories - I suggest you take a look at some of the magnet research that has been done already. I'm sure you are not the first to think that opposing force of magnets could be harnessed. I'm sure it is a useful technology actually, but it will not create a perpetual motion machine. I believe electromagnets are used to keep high speed devices free of friction. I think this is used in high speed centrifuges.
Yeah I know. I talked to someone about that. Magnetic power is very chaotic. The thing here is the person never mentioned how fast magnets lose their power. I mean what's the range. I played around with magnets in the past and saw they still retain most of their repelling ability no matter how many times you put the same poles together. The thing here is, I never knew the specific measurements, as I said, it seemed visibly to be chaotic. Anyone here a magnet expert that might know the specific numbers? :-P |
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Diamond
Enthusiast
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The length of time that permanent (so-called) magnets retain their strength is measured in units of "retentivity". It varies considerably just as magnets vary: From the "temporary" iron magnets to various grades of steel, as well as the many alloys of cobalt, nickel, manganese, etc. - like Alnico, etc. There are any number of texts and statistics available on line and in the technical literature, which if you expect to pursue your search for whatever it is you seek, may require considerable research on your own. There is no more magic in repulsion than in attraction as far as magnets are concerned, and electromagnets are both variable and controllable to a considerable degree. FYI.
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| Posts: 7007 | Location: Baltimore, MD, U.S.A | Registered: 06-03-02 | |
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quote: Originally posted by frankvan:
The length of time that permanent (so-called) magnets retain their strength is measured in units of "retentivity". It varies considerably just as magnets vary: From the "temporary" iron magnets to various grades of steel, as well as the many alloys of cobalt, nickel, manganese, etc. - like Alnico, etc. There are any number of texts and statistics available on line and in the technical literature, which if you expect to pursue your search for whatever it is you seek, may require considerable research on your own. There is no more magic in repulsion than in attraction as far as magnets are concerned, and electromagnets are both variable and controllable to a considerable degree. FYI.
I also heard thatn the poles can alter too. In other words north pole can change to south pole and vice versa. Does anyone know if that's true? |
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I forgot to add this. This dvice could use custom magnets to prevent extra repulsion in areas where the device can't afford to have. You can ignore that picture in the corner of this picture. The point of this picture was to show where the poles on the magnet need to be and how the magnet could be custom made. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/linkzelda/CustomMagnet.jpg |
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quote: Originally posted by frankvan:
I'm sorry, but I can't in good conscience continue to encourage what I perceive to be absolute nonsensical rubbish. You obviously know nothing about the science or technology involved. You will undoubtedly fall into the hands of others who will be happy to help develop this so-called invention, for a fee, of course. There is one of you born every minute.
Nah, if someone wants to do this on their own they are more then glad to do so. Your absolutely right. I couldn't trust someone I would have to pay. It would take someone who actually wants to see if it works. |
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quote: Originally posted by Kainchild: I forgot to add this. This dvice could use custom magnets to prevent extra repulsion in areas where the device can't afford to have. You can ignore that picture in the corner of this picture. The point of this picture was to show where the poles on the magnet need to be and how the magnet could be custom made. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/linkzelda/CustomMagnet.jpg
Now the question arises if the magnet has a neutral pole on top and a repelling pole on the side, will there still be resistance once 2 of the same poles become in-lined with each other? I mean how much resistance will the spring encounter as it pushes the magnet on top of the pop up hammer piece up and into a repelling in-line posistion with the same pole of the magnet on the arm. See that's the point of the pulleys. The pulleys are suppose to decrease the amount of energy needed to pull the pop up piece down. Of course there's still work output from the turning of all the gears and also the friction needs to be factored in as well. The magnet's repulsion on the arm has to be able to take on this work load and still be able to make it's way past the next pop up piece, so the missing gear teeth on the last gear on that gear train will allow the pop piece to pop back up and into posistion to repel the magnet on the arm. |
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quote: Originally posted by Bibc14:
<-- Mechanical Engineer
Someone else came to me with an idea like this.
The problem with magnets is that the force is always acting.
The same force that you would use to push a magnet around would be the same force that would act negatively on the same magnet when it was trying to approach the first magnet.
Think of them like springs... you can use the spring to move something but first you must compress the spring. (Compressing the spring takes more energy than the spring releases due to friction and heat loss.)
You try to solve this with your gears and flipping the magnets to prevent them from interfering with the approaching magnet, and only push the magnet after it passes.
this would be a great idea if there was no friction or loss of energy in the gears.
Every time you have moving parts there is friction between them, and with this friction you get energy loss. the force that the magnets generate on the rotating rods with magnets to power the gears that will flip the magnets up and down will be less than the energy that it needs to turn the gears and it will not work.
You can do what you can to try to reduce the friction, less gears, etc... but it will always be there.
If there were no friction then you would be able to do this, but in the real world there is always friction and energy loss, sometimes more than others but always there.
Feel free to contact me for more clarification.
-Chris
The pulley system was suppose to eliminate the strain from the spring and also eliminate some of the strain from the friction. In "theory" the rest of the magnet's energy was suppose to then be able to turn the whole system to then pulll down the magnet then proceed to allow the magnet to pop back up. I needed someone with mechanical engineering skills to look at the math part of it to calculate if this were even possible, factoring all the parts from the output of the magnets, to the friction, to the compensation from the pulley system. Regardless, your correct the main problem still will be loss of energy from work output and friction. |
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