This really surprised me. I'm still not sure that I believe the statistics. ****************************************************** 03-03-04, 01:35 PM Georgia85 What don't you believe? You think more people should have been for or against it?
03-03-04, 01:42 PM aminator2002 You mean it's stunning that over half of America supports a Constitutional Amendment?
I'm stunned too.
03-03-04, 02:33 PM methos I can't find the statistics in that article. Which are we talking about?
Ami - every recent poll I've seen shows that more than half of Americans oppose gay marriage, but every one I've seen also shows them/us opposing an amendment to stop it by a wider margin. Even most prominent Republicans, while they tend to oppose gay marriage, oppose a constitutional amendment (though they do keep open the possibility of one if and when the Supreme Court declares not allowing gay marriage unconstitutional).
03-03-04, 02:35 PM teeceeum That's what I'm talking about, ami. Go to the end of the article Methos.
Wow. They've edited the article. In the original version it stated that 53% of Americans supported a Consitutional Ammendment banning same-sex marriages. I believe it also said that Americans disapproved of same-sex marriages by a two-to-one margin.
[This message was edited by teeceeum on 03-03-04 at 02:46 PM.]
03-03-04, 03:06 PM methos Ah, so I'm not blind Wink
Yes, I'm not sure I'd believe those statistics either because (A) they contradict every other poll I've seen (B) MSNBC obviously felt they needed to be removed for some reason.
03-03-04, 04:24 PM teeceeum Well, I'm still stunned. I did a little research and found this site.
07-09-04, 09:48 AM methos Looks like we'll be seeing how much congressional support the amendment has soon. The debate was supposed to start next Monday, but has been pushed forward to today (rumored reasons include reducing the Kerry/Edwards campaign's airtime, encouraging religious leaders to discuss it with their congregations over the weekend, and forcing Kerry and Edwards (both of whom oppose gay marriage but also strongly oppose an amendment on the matter) to come back from the campaign trail early so as not to miss the vote predicted for early next week). House Republican leaders, who once gave lukewarm at best support to the amendment and opposed bringing the matter up for a vote before the elections, now say they plan a vote for just before the elections. Neither house looks like they have the 2/3 majority needed to pass the amendment, and I would be surprised if the necessary 3/4 of the states would sign off on it.
07-09-04, 01:32 PM DvdGStwrt The only thing that stuns me is that there are so many Americans who are willing to allow an Amendment by a power hungry, war mongering, lying, deceiving, foolish man who, to date, has done many questionable things.
In my mind Hitler and Bush are on equal grounds: I see 9-11 as the Reichstag fire. I see the Patriot Act like the Enabling Act. I see the hostilities on Saddam under false pretenses like the attack on Poland. I see Homeland Security as SS (Special Security). I see the amendment to the Constitution against Gays like the Anti-Jew laws in Germany. Jews were selected as a device to instill fear and hatred. Today we can't pick on races, so we pick on sexuality - the last bastion of hatred.
I see history repeating itself - sorry if that offends the sensibilities of Bush Supporters and those who think it can't happen in America.
07-09-04, 10:32 PM coldfuse The Constitution appears awkward and works poorly when restricting the liberty of individual citizens. The rights of states and communities should prevail on the issue.
It never ceases to amaze me how much people worry about what other folks are doing.
07-10-04, 01:30 AM Kelleygirl Amen, Fuse --- well said!!!
07-10-04, 06:31 PM frankvan What we really need is a constitutional amendment outlawing all amendments during an election year. Wink
07-11-04, 10:55 PM stampeding turtles I don't think it's a good idea either. To me it's writing into the constitution discriminatory social legislation and is giving special rights to one group of people. Plus, the most adamant supporters seem to be from politically powerful religious groups who simply cannot see the issue from the standpoint of liberties and fairness. Of course, if they are succesful, that violates the whole spirit of seperation of religion and government. To my mind they should not be able to use their religion this way.... as a weapon to restrict rights and benefits to a group of people who just do not share their particular religious codes. That should be OK, to not share another groups values and codes, but in America right now, it is not... and that is what is so very scary about the whole thing!
I liked the line in Farenheit 911 when Moore is interviewing one of the members of Congress (an African- american gentleman whose name I don't recall?,)talking about the Patriot Act: "We don't actually read the bills, we don't have the time!"...something to that effect. So I don't put much faith in them to decide such an important issue for millions of people. They are just going to push it through, probably without realizing what they are doing..like they did the Patriot act.
Fairness is an American value and a family value, regardless of what the far right-wing religious bigots say. What I don't really understand is why anyone should put much credence in what they say, as they are fairly clueless of the real gay community, as their sources are full of propaganda against this group. I have seen a lot of it and it's either outright fabrications or embellishments of a small fringe or radical group or behavior, within the gay community that they say represents the entire community. Another deceitful thing they do is emphasize only the material that proves their point. For instance, there may be a dozen studies done in some area where nine of the studies support the gay community and three against it. But they will only talk about the three against and say that proves their point.. so they are dishonest and are not really interested in the spirit of understanding or fairness ,but are only seeking to validate their religious prejudices....all because they are so homophobic, it affects their judgement.
07-22-04, 03:50 PM Elexina The statistics that I have seen, over and over again, indicate that American are pretty well split on the issue of gay marriage, but that most of us are pretty sure we don't want to alter the Constitution in order to decide the issue.
quote:The only thing that stuns me is that there are so many Americans who are willing to allow an Amendment by a power hungry, war mongering, lying, deceiving, foolish man who, to date, has done many questionable things.
Ditto.
07-23-04, 02:13 PM MrSensitive Used to be a time when the Constitution and it's amendments limited the power of the government- not it's citizens. T'would be a fine idea to return to those ideals.
Mr(reconstituted)Sensitive
07-25-04, 11:00 PM Sherasi On a slightly different vein.. we have now had our first Gay Divorce in the US. A married couple who had been together unmarried for 10 years has divorced after 3 (?) months.
Also:
Welcome back Mr.(its been a long time, baby)Sensitive!!
07-26-04, 01:37 PM Elexina Isn't it sad? -the divorce part, not the MrSensitive part. It seems like that happens a lot. People can be together for eons and then they get married and BAM, their relationship is over. Why is that?
07-26-04, 02:28 PM DvdGStwrt Because as long as they are not married they have the comfort of knowing that they could walk anytime they desired.
as soon as your married it hits you "Oh My God, I must be with this person - For Ever!!!!!"
That kind of stress results in resentment and anger and all of the things that were not so bad before suddenly become huge issues.
David
07-26-04, 02:33 PM FredPuli It's generally because the marriage is thought to be a cure for unease. The relationship is showing signs of insecurity and the couple think that if they go through a marriage, vows, legality, formality and all, that will steady it. Once they are married and formally tied they will stick. In practice it often doesn't work like that. The marriage is a symptom not a cure for the disease and the relationship finally fails, as it inevitably would.
The local record holder at present, is of two friends (one may be an ex-friend of Mr and Mrs FP now ; read on Wink . Both are journalists; what follows has entertained tabloid readers here for some days. He married the mother of his two children, age about 8 and 10, after being with her for some 12 years. As soon as he got back from the honeymoon he was in bed with a woman half his age and is now with her. This makes a married life of really a day (or less), in his heart, but in fact a week or two together, whilst she was told of the affair and papers were filed.
Some, women in particular, may approve of what follows, some may regard it as dishonourable (I don't but I'm biased ):
So: "Confession corner" : This is really and largely Mrs FP's doing. She told, advised, cajoled the couple to marry and she and the woman together encouraged him to do so. Mrs FP knew of this ongoing affair but the woman didn't, it seems. So that the woman would get a certain claim on the man's estate and income the woman had to be married to him (Claims, even by long term partners are notoriously difficult, often impossible to resolve properly. She has no basic claim beyond gifts of property wholly or in part in her name. The children have an automatic right of course). The man married in ignorance of the knowledge held by Mrs FP, of course (FP is saying nothing of any alleged or imagined involvement, advice etc of his , and wishes to consult his lawyers before speaking Big Grin) ). The woman then apprised took action as a married woman. Of course the man was then hit with this bombshell which some people might think wholly appropriate; without it she would have got no adequate or proper compensation. (Of course he may have planned it all, out of kindness)
BTW; he is the godfather to our daughter. What was that about promising, in church, to give moral guidance to his godchild Confused ???
GOTCHA !
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