This book for 2nd graders has recently created a lot of controversy when it was read to the children in one of the local elementary schools, without parental permission.
The Queen tries to marry off her son to a princess to rule the kingdom as King and Queen, instead, he falls in love with a prince and they live happily ever after as King and King. Not your typical Cinderella storybook ending. Just wondering about your thoughts....does a book like this have any place in 2nd grade? If it is banned, should Cinderella be banned also?
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04-20-06, 09:32 AM
frankvan
I suspect this will be more traumatic to some of the parents than to the second graders. In fact, it is probably exactly the time in children's lives when they should become acquainted with reality. As long as some of their classmates will be found to have two mothers, or two fathers, etc., why not?? Children learn to cope with whatever they're confronted with. Unfortunately, too often, it's bigotry and intolerance they learn in their homes, rather than at school. This will meet with considerable opposition and outrage in much of America, I'm afraid. Frown . What's wrong with Cinderella?

04-20-06, 11:53 AM
Sarai
We stepmothers aren't too fond of the story of Cinderella, Frank. It's given us a bad rap. Big Grin

Of course, if every group (stepmothers, straight people, gay people, unattractive women who have step-siblings, people with big feet, really tall people who can smell the blood of Englishmen, people who can't feel a pea in their bed when they sleep, people who find nakedness offensive, frogs, etc.) could censor the story that offends their sensibilities or paints them in an unfavorable light (or paints someone else in a favorable light), no fairy tales would be told at all.

To be honest, though, I have my doubts about how long the story will last. It isn't easy to write a fairy tale and turn it into a classic. Foes of the book need only worry if it is a very powerful story that will speak to both adults and children in meaningful ways. Otherwise, they would be smart to stay quiet and just let the book be forgotten.

04-20-06, 12:08 PM
DorianGreyed
"To be honest, though, I have my doubts about how long the story will last. It isn't easy to write a fairy tale and turn it into a classic. Foes of the book need only worry if it is a very powerful story that will speak to both adults and children in meaningful ways. Otherwise, they would be smart to stay quiet and just let the book be forgotten."

I agree. (And I loved the "really tall people who can smell the blood of Englishmen" part.)

04-20-06, 01:59 PM
babthrower

quote:
people who can't feel a pea in their bed when they sleep,


Sarai, I always wondered if that was based on a pun. A 'princess' (not a real one, just some chick that acts like one) is on a trip into a National Park to get stoned with her friends and gets lost and is taken in by the forest ranger and his family. The only bed is one she must share with the youngest, who is not completely trained. The result: screams in the night, the baby is smacked by the insulted princess, consequently she is turfed out into the pitch-black forest and eaten by bears.

If she'd been a real princess, she would have graciously overlooked the baby's social error.

I like a tale with a moral.

04-20-06, 04:04 PM
frankvan
I venture to say that there hasn't been a book written that wouldn't offend someone, but I have to come to the defense of fairy tales. I think little kids are a dam site smarter than we adults realize. They outsmart the parents quite often. Like the proverbial dumb blond, sometimes they only feign ignorance when it works to their advantage. Kids know that fairy tales aren't for real.

My grandmother used to hold me on her lap and read to me from a great big book of Grimm's fairly tales. As I recall they were full of all sorts of horror stories. One of them was the story of a boy called Pieter Smeerpoets. Piet never cut his fingernails, let his hair grow way too long, and probably didn't wash very often. In one of the illustrations, an adult - possibly a parent or tailor, finally came with a huge pair of scissors and whacked off the boys finger nails, including parts of the fingers. Blood spurted from several fingers. Nevertheless, I grew up to be fairly normal - and keep my fingernails nicely trimmed at all times. However, from watching my grandma's bony finger as she traced through the words as she read, I soon found that I could read them myself and I had caught on to how that process seemed to work. As a result, I was reading the newspaper at four years of age. My parents used to be amused by the sight of a four year old reading the adventures of the Katzenjammer Kids, and Mutt and Jeff in the Sunday paper to my 7 year old cousin. Now when I see the Baltimore school system setting a goal of "reading by eight", I wonder why no one has discovered the "bony finger methof". You can learn a lot from fairy tales. Wink

04-20-06, 04:18 PM
juanruiz
The original Grimm's Tales, as frank points out, were a lot more gory than modern adaptations. In "Cinderella" the step-sisters chop off half their feet so the glass slipper will fit.

04-20-06, 04:34 PM
gerry
One of the parents reported her kid came home after reading the story and exclaimed ' It showed 2 men kissing....that is so silly'. The children already have been carefully taught prejudices before their 4th birthday.

Frank, I used the 'bony finger' method with my children and grandchildren. It works!

04-20-06, 05:53 PM
FredPuli
King and King? Shouldn't that be, vulgarly, 'queen and queen' ? Confused This brings a whole new meaning to the term 'fairy story'.

04-25-06, 04:45 PM
honilov
King and Queen sounds more appropriate. I thought one always takes the female role. Unless the story is more about kissing, then King and King is more appropriate.

Whether appropriate or not, I think the parents still should give their permission if they want their child reading such a book.

04-27-06, 12:23 AM
gerry

quote:
Originally posted by honilov:
King and Queen sounds more appropriate. I thought one always takes the female role. Unless the story is more about kissing, then King and King is more appropriate.

Whether appropriate or not, I think the parents still should give their permission if they want their child reading such a book.

This one's going to the federal courts. The same school teacher read a children's book to kindergarten kids about kids with same sex parents. Parent argues that these these are human sexuality issues that require parental consent before subjecting the child to such 'poison'. School supports the teacher and argues that these are not issues of 'sexuality' but rather issues of 'diversity' that do not require parental consent. And all this happening in Masssachusetts, the one and only state that allows gay marriage (and, BTW, the one and only state that voted for George McGovern over 'tricky Dickie' Nixon way back when).

04-27-06, 01:07 PM
DvdGStwrt
Actually I think all fairy-tales and Disney stories should be banned. (They all have a parent dieing, think on that – Where is the Little Mermaid’s mom? What happen to Nemo’s mom? What happened to Bambi’s mom – Disney is one sick twisted b*&$!)

Even some of the lullabies are violent - Down will come baby cradle and all? Terrible. Baking black birds in a pie? Georgie Porgie making girls cry? Hm….

Speaking of Gay Themed “fairy-tales” 7 dwarves live together – alone… Hm. And what about Snow White? She moves in with them and becomes what slave labor? Maybe she was a fag-hag?

Peter Pan and the Lost Boys – no Girls until Wendy… Things to think about you see. And Captain Hook and his crew – all looking to “get Peter”… another thing to think about – potential tale of child molestors?

My point (in humor) is that one can make a case against any story, most likely we can turn them into gay themed stories, pull out the hints at gay plot – or worse.

King and King most likely will be banned (banning books is something our society has a habit of doing). Its equality message will be lost because people are terrified of homosexuality. Although they will still allow the violent, twisted stories to be told because they can not see the real message behind those tales, the nightmare visions that we are all used to and grew up with and think (because we don’t have people who haven’t been raised on such filth) that no wrong comes of them.

Another book that should be banned due to its graphic violence, unbridled sex and its effects on the mental and emotional health of countless thousands (Many are in Institutions being treated for having read that book) is the Bible. Of course nobody would dare question that or consider banning the Bible because it is the corner stone of Christianity (Which begs the question is Christianity a healthy thing?)


(Many suffers of schizophrenia have some very religious tendencies “extreme” in most cases, delusions of God hood, messiah, or follow their particular religion with devotion that is deemed unhealthy)

04-27-06, 02:52 PM
frankvan
We are talking about reading to pre-pubescent kids here. The lesson is that we all know that most men end up marrying women, but here's a story about one man who prefers another man. Well that happens. In fact some of the boys and girls in the class may know of people like that. Especially in this day and age, chances are pretty good that some of the kids in every class will know of or have a family with two dads, or two mom's. Let's talk about it . No big deal. Especially to second grade students. They think of people living in the same house, cooking, eating, playing, etc. It's only the parents whose first thought, unfortunately, is sex. Certainly not the kids'. Ask yourself, Honi: "Mightn't this be a good early lesson for children at an appropriate time in thier lives to learn that we live in a world of diversity?" Wouldn't children learn that just because we aren't all alike, some are tall, some short, some with different skin color, etc.; just because we're all different doesn't mean being different is bad. If bigotry is an evil thing that we would be better off without, why should we adults insist on erecting obstacles to educating our future voters toward genuine belief in equal justice and liberty for all our people?

04-27-06, 03:41 PM
honilov
Sorry Frank. You're right. I don't know why I always put my foot in my own mouth.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DorianGreyed,