Americans, especially American politicians, are fond of saying that the United States' health care system is the best in the world. Is it, really ?

Here's what Dr. Alfred Sommer, outgoing dean of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health has to say about it.

"The answer is unequivocally 'No'. What we do have is that, for those who can afford it, we can provide the best medical care i the world. That's why you have very wealthy people from abroad coming here. But that is very different from saying the United States has the best health care system in the world. That would mean that on average life expectancy was higher than anywhere else and infant mortality was lower and cancer rates were lower and so on and so forth. And that is not the case. Despite the fact that we have very fancy hospitals and the most modern drugs and technology, we are No. 27 in infant mortality. Not first, or even fourth, but 27th. We are somewhere around 16 or 18 in life expectancy. As a system that is taking care of society as a whole, we don't do very well. And that is a public health concern."
Source: The Sun, Baltimore Sunday, July 24, 2005.

I guess it depends how you define "best". The USA probably has the most scientific research and, as that quote says, best healthcare for those who can afford it. But it does not have the best healthcare for all its citizens, or the best information delivery/ knowledge about health by all its citizens.

Silja (who pays 280 euro/ 350 dollars for a year of health insurance for her and her husband, including private beds and no waiting if we need ops).

It's definitely not the best in the world. The knowledge/resources might be here, but the system sucks. The doctors can't give the best of care because the patient's insurance company is putting too much pressure on them. The insurance companies are telling the doctors what meds to give, and how long a person can stay in the hospital, and other **** like that.

Somebody need to step up and say the patient's health should comes first.

There is a vicious circle of law-suits increasing the costs of liability insurance for nursing and physician practicianers. Many doctors actually have to give up their practice because the cost is so prohibitive.

The costs of procedures are increasing, the cost of meds also. There is no reason for it except that the insurance companies have a stranglehold on the entire system.

In fact, some hospitals, unofficially, refuse to diagnose certain illnesses because of the cost of care, preferring to only treat the SYMPTOMS. Here in PA, one of these diseases is called "Lyme Disease". This disease is SO expensive to treat to CURE (and so difficult to do) that many hospitals have stopped doing so.

One local hospital actually fired the physician that was the specialist in this Disease and started, unofficially, treating only the symptoms. That is all because the insurance companies saw no profit in treating such a time/cost intensive illness. I know patients that have had to literally drive states away to get an actual DIAGNOSIS.

It is insane!

"There is a vicious circle of law-suits increasing the costs of liability insurance for nursing and physician practicianers." - Sher

It is NOT the lawsuits driving up costs. At least two studies have shown that the insurance premiums rising has no correlation to increased costs due to suits. However, the insurance companies go a long way to foster that belief. Check out their profits. If the cost of doing business was driving the cost of premiums up, there should have been an off year for profits at the begining of the cycle. There was no such off year. The only factor at the start of the premiums rising that is noticed is a stock market drop. The insurance companies are just charging more to make up for investment losses. It is just business as usuall in the US, which means the little guy (read the everyday Joe) gets shafted and usually never knows why or how.

"U.S. health expenditures are by far the highest of any country in the world at 15 percent of GDP. No other country spends even 11 percent of GDP. The U.S. also spends much more in absolute dollars. U.S. citizens pay $5,440 on average for health coverage while Canadians, the fourth biggest spenders, shell out $2,927...

Insurance companies, for-profit hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, and doctors-the historical linchpin of corporate medicine-oppose universal health insurance. They are powerful political players. According to Acumen Journal, "since late 1999 [U.S.] health care lobbying spending has consistently passed that of any other industry. In 2002, that amounted to expenditures of $264 million...the health care industry as a whole accounted for 15 percent of the $1.8 billion in lobbying spending for 2002."
Rising Health Costs, Yves Engler, Z mag, April 2004

Frank, the problem is that you are using mere facts when arguing against beleifs. You must remember that the people of the US have been told for a long time that we have the best health care system in the world. All the facts that you or anyone else could possibly amass mean nothing in the face of that. Too many in the US blindly accept what they are told rather than any facts presented. This group, of course, only includes those insured. Those not insured, or those under-insured, of course, know the reality of the situation.
This situation of beleif outweighing facts is also evident in our blind acceptance that "the US has the best trained and best equipped military in the world." We have read that several times here in AP, and have heard that in real life discussions hundreds of times. During Vietnam, many of my friends told me that they were always on the lookout for dropped AK 47s because the first batch of GI M16s sent with them jammed under fire or if the least bit dirty, while the 47s seemed able to fire while encased in mud, yet "the US has the best trained and best equipped military in the world." AT that time, eight weeks of basic training and 4 weeks of AIT, [Advanced Infantry Training (sic)] was apparently enough to qualify everyone to be one of "the best trained military in the world." We are tolf this despite the US's inability to rescue hostages held by non-military in Iran while Israel was able to rescue hostages held by the Ugandan military. During the current war, we are again told that "the US has the best trained and best equipped military in the world" despite using weekend warriors in jobs that they have NOT been trained for with lightly armored equipment that some of them jokingly call "Death on Wheels." We were told that "the US has the best trained and best equipped military in the world" while US heavy equipment was breaking down from overuse and from excessive wear due to sand storms in Iraq.(This description of equipment is taken from quotes supplied by the military in Iraq, both the poor guys who are relying on teh equipment and the brass who are trying desparately to get replacement parts so that their troops are a little safer. Who would have thoght that sand would wear out parts faster than no sand, or to expect sand storms in the middle of a desert?) We were told that "the US has the best trained and best equipped military in the world" when Mon & Dads and wife and sweethearts were sending the newest body armor to their loved ones because the GI body armor, first issued during Vietnam and still being issued to troops, won't stop the aforementioned AK47 rounds. (There have been more AK47s produced than any other automatic weapon in the world, but why should we expect to run into them in Iraq?) "the US has the best trained and best equipped military in the world" and "the US has the best health care system in the world" must be mantras of some sort to some people, something to be chanted in order to attain Oneness with the Universe. Yes, the US does really have the best health care system in the world, IF you are able to use it. Unfortunately, too many in the US aren't.

DG, I'll continue to hold out hope that somewhere, somehow, misguided beliefs will begin to yield to undeniable facts. Call me a dreamer - -

"We spend over $4,000 per capita on personal health care, about twice as much as Canada and the European countries (which cover all their citizens), and the gap is growing. Why is our system such a money sink? Not because our population is older or sicker. All the Western countries have aging populations vulnerable to nearly the same illnesses at roughly the same rates, and ours is actually younger than most. Nor is the reason that we get better outcomes.
By all the usual measures of health-life expectancy, infant mortality, childhood immunization rate- we do worse than most Western countries. The only plausible explanation is how health care is financed and delivered. The American health care system is staggeringly wasteful and inflationary. The United States is unique in treating health care as a market commodity distributed according to the ability to pay instead of as a social good distributed according to medical need."

American Prospect magazine

I don't think the words safe or world's best can be used in the same sentence with the 3rd leading cause of death in the US is the "reported" doctor error. Use your imagination. How many errors do you think are really reported, or accurately.

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Edited to remove ad for bogus product.

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Aren't spammers wonderful DG? NOT!

Aw, shucks, I missed it. I've always wanted to have skin like a Romanian.

quote:

$2,927...

Frank's source cites this figure. I wonder where they get that?

In 1997 my husband had a lot of outpatient treatment, and some inpatient treatment, including chemotherapy and lots of tests such as MRI's etc., and lots of drugs, and died in June.

Our total medical expenses (not including dental) for those six months were:

-- Medical insurance, 6 months @ 96.00 = 596.00

(This is the maximum rate for a couple; people on lower incomes pay less, or nothing.)

-- Non-prescription meds, and filling fee for prescription drugs for both Ern and I = 282.00

-- 5 trips to chiropractor, babs = 200.00

Total for six months = 1,058.00

Double that for a year = 2,116.00

And that's for a couple, not a 'per average'.

I was healthy except for hurting my shoulder doing yard work and needing a few trips to the chiropractor. But my husband was very seriously ill and towards the end we had home care R.N.'s several times a week and respite workers once a week.

I wonder if Frank's figures include dental? The B.C. medical plan only covers dental if the situation is beyond the scope of a dentist.

I don't know whether you in the US have a better health care system than we do in Canada. I can only tell you what my experience has been here. My son has MD, and is still recovering from major surgery he had in January.

He has spent about 4 weeks in hospital in total. He ended up having 5 operations, due to complications.
There were no bills to pay at the end of that stay, regarding his treatment. There were no discussions with insurance companies about the need for, and cost of procedures. What the medical experts saw as needing to be done, was done.

My meals were paid for while I stayed with him at the hospital, and accomodation was my only expense, which was $200 for 4 weeks. I chose not to spend each night sleeping in his room, but stayed nearby.

Before he came home, everything was put in place for his care at home.

He recieves nursing care daily to change dressings.
Another person comes in 3 times a week to help him with personal care, washing his hair etc.

All medical supplies are free. I just have to call the pharmacy and order them. There is a small charge for prescriptions, maybe $3 for each drug.
He also has a nurse stay overnight twice a week, to allow me to sleep, and for 25 hours during the day per week, so that I can work. I can increase these hours at any time, should I need to.

Physiotherapists, dieticians and a tutor (from the school board) come to the house at no extra charge.
I would put a rough estimate at the cost of extra equipment for his condition at $30,000 Canadian..at no charge to our family.

If I am at all concerned that he needs to see a doctor in the evening, when the doctor's office is closed, I call an ambulance, and he is taken to the hospital. I have done this 3 times since he came home..there is no bill for this.

I don't know if he would recieve comparable services in the US, but I am pretty certain he wouldn't in the UK.
My sister is a nurse-practitioner in England, and, it seems that, while there is a lot of help available, it comes at a high price.

When I was looking after Ernie, Dancer, I got to thinking about the 'good old days' when one daughter was expected to stay unmarried so she could look after BOTH parents through their last illness, with only the help that other relatives could spare her,and I wondered how on earth they managed. Even one day's laundry for one incontinent person with modern washing machines is a problem, when you add to it the serving of many small meals (they can't manage three large meals) and all the other tasks.

By the way, I slipped a cog while typing that last post. It was of course 2007, not 1997, that I ought to have typed.

Moldy repeats a statistic which puzzles me -- the 'doctor error' thing.

quote:

I don't think the words safe or world's best can be used in the same sentence with the 3rd leading cause of death in the US is the "reported" doctor error. Use your imagination. How many errors do you think are really reported, or accurately.

I really think that bears looking into.

I would say the number one cause of death is the natural limit on the human lifespan. As we age, we lose our resistance to a host of diseases: pneumonia, intestinal infections, and perhaps through diminished immunity, the viruses that may cause cancers. Further, our bones are less sturdy, our vision, hearing and balance are deteriorating, and our muscles become weaker. Meantime, our joints lose their natural cushioning and lubrication, and our mobility becomes more and more limited.

In a state of nature, we would have fallen prey to the wolves and jackals long before our seventies.

I would think number two would involve bad lifestyle choices: smoking, alcoholism, obesity, drug abuse, driving unwisely on the highways, and risk-taking behavior involving crime and drugs.

And add to that a warlike national mentality under which a nation chooses to attack other nations for economic reasons rather than for the sole justifiable reason -- that the enemy nation has invaded one's own land -- and one's national death statistic becomes a matter of concern.

Yes medical staff make mistakes. But one reason why they are so often fatal is that we are over-drugged. The drug companies push products onto the market and promote them shamelessly to doctors and on television -- "Ask your doctor..." -- and as a result improperly tested drugs are given to patients with little knowledge of deadly side effects.

So let's replace "doctor error" with "human error". The people who promote the paranoia are usually lawyers. Doctors fear lawyers above all things.

Their insurance rates are hideous because Americans, much more than Canadians, or any other nation that I know of, live in an aggressively litigacious culture. Getting Aunt Minnie into hospital and then waiting for some error which can be the basis of a very rewarding lawsuit is the passionately-held ambition of quite a number of people who think it will be the gateway to a life of luxury -- if only Aunt Minnie will be good enough to die on cue.

Good post, Babs.

quote:

Originally posted by babthrower:
By the way, I slipped a cog while typing that last post.

Babs, I've found it works better if you sip a cognac instead.

I'll drink to that!

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whenever you have 45 minutes to watch all of the
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Edited with a touch of humor by DG

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